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Ravenscar
#341 Posted : 01 March 2013 00:09:25(UTC)
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Quote:
"This scandal has caused enormous public mistrust and many people are bog-eyed about the whole thing", says Borg. "That is why we have to improve the deterrents and need better traceability".


Bog eyed?

Indeed, the so called labelling and HACCP [according to wiki Hazard analysis and critical control points, or HACCP is a systematic preventive approach to food safety and allergenic, chemical, and biological hazards in ..........] in fact all accountability for meat products in the EU is bog standard bollox.

It's making me - boss eyed.
gareth
#342 Posted : 01 March 2013 00:53:53(UTC)
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Is this a natural consequence of the regulators and legislators not really being accountable to anyone? We've seen exactly the same thing with incompetent financial regulation. The rules have large holes in them, provoke the risky practices they claim to prevent and fail to protect consumers. If bureaucrats and retailers/producers were equally vulnerable to prosecution for failings perhaps we'd see both less regulations and better thought out ones.
mmatis
#343 Posted : 01 March 2013 00:57:50(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gareth Go to Quoted Post
Is this a natural consequence of the regulators and legislators not really being accountable to anyone? We've seen exactly the same thing with incompetent financial regulation. The rules have large holes in them, provoke the risky practices they claim to prevent and fail to protect consumers. If bureaucrats and retailers/producers were equally vulnerable to prosecution for failings perhaps we'd see both less regulations and better thought out ones.

Yeah, as if THAT is gonna happen!

Maybe if you can ram Harrogate through, and escape from the Promised Land. But not before then...
mmatis
#344 Posted : 02 March 2013 15:40:54(UTC)
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From a consumer perspective, I expect the company whose name is on the label to do quality control on their product. If I buy Green Giant canned peas at a Publix supermarket, I do not expect Publix to go to the Green Giant plant and their suppliers to verify what goes into those cans. I DO, however, expect Green Giant to do so. And the same for Stouffer's with their lasagna with meat sauce. If their supply chains are so convoluted that they cannot properly track what is coming from where, and randomly sample to verify content, well...

I do support a government role to control some food characteristics. I expect that prime beef in Winn-Dixie will be the same as prime beef at Publix and prime beef at Aldi's. I also agree with a government standard that defines what has to be in a product for it to be called "lemonade". But beyond that, I see no reason for government to tell me that I cannot buy unpasteurized milk, as long as the vendor does not claim that it IS pasteurized. This horsemeat fraud lies directly on the heads of those who did final packaging for sale to the public. They should, of course, be able to pursue back up their supply chain to those who committed the original fraud. But Ikea, Findus, Davigel, Taco Bell, and the rest have MY deepest scorn. The FSA should not be mandted to do any more than random spot checks at point of sale to verify that labeling is appropriate. Nothing against government having meat inspectors that could be contracted by the various companies, but there is no good reason for them to be required across the board.
Dave Evans
#345 Posted : 03 March 2013 01:28:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mmatis Go to Quoted Post
From a consumer perspective, I expect the company whose name is on the label to do quality control on their product. If I buy Green Giant canned peas at a Publix supermarket, I do not expect Publix to go to the Green Giant plant and their suppliers to verify what goes into those cans. I DO, however, expect Green Giant to do so. And the same for Stouffer's with their lasagna with meat sauce. If their supply chains are so convoluted that they cannot properly track what is coming from where, and randomly sample to verify content, well...

I do support a government role to control some food characteristics. I expect that prime beef in Winn-Dixie will be the same as prime beef at Publix and prime beef at Aldi's. I also agree with a government standard that defines what has to be in a product for it to be called "lemonade". But beyond that, I see no reason for government to tell me that I cannot buy unpasteurized milk, as long as the vendor does not claim that it IS pasteurized. This horsemeat fraud lies directly on the heads of those who did final packaging for sale to the public. They should, of course, be able to pursue back up their supply chain to those who committed the original fraud. But Ikea, Findus, Davigel, Taco Bell, and the rest have MY deepest scorn. The FSA should not be mandted to do any more than random spot checks at point of sale to verify that labeling is appropriate. Nothing against government having meat inspectors that could be contracted by the various companies, but there is no good reason for them to be required across the board.


In your very first paragraph you miss the point.
You don't expect Publix to verify but you do expect Green giant to.
Green Giant in turn expect their suppliers to conform and verify.
In any multi suppliers network, fraud is bound to happen and as in this case where multiple owners may be involved before the product even moves, where do you start?
richard
#346 Posted : 03 March 2013 10:31:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dave Evans Go to Quoted Post
In any multi suppliers network, fraud is bound to happen and as in this case where multiple owners may be involved before the product even moves, where do you start?



I think you look again at "due diligence" and how it is administered. At the moment, I think the pendulum has swung too far in removing virtually all retailer liability.

mmatis
#347 Posted : 03 March 2013 13:58:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dave Evans Go to Quoted Post
In any multi suppliers network, fraud is bound to happen and as in this case where multiple owners may be involved before the product even moves, where do you start?



I think you look again at "due diligence" and how it is administered. At the moment, I think the pendulum has swung too far in removing virtually all retailer liability.


I expect the company which applies final packaging to sample and verify appropriately. For meat and prepared food that my market packages themselves, I expect them to randomly sample. Same for Green Giant. Or Stouffer's. Or Davigel. That does not necessarily TOTALLY stop fraud. But for fraud to be worthwhile, it has to be in volume. One horse into the system is NOT worth the effort. But if they're stuffing a herd in, then Davigel or Stouffer's or Taco Bell WILL catch them with a random sampling of incoming supplies. Or a random sampling of outgoing product. EITHER will work.

And when they DO catch someone for fraud, bring back the stocks! Nothing like a good public humiliation to send a message. But keep the Mere Citizens at least 25 feet away and only allow foodstuffs. NOTHING frozen...

The government role should be a random sampling at final point-of-sale. A government inspector should be able to go into any market, pick product at random, pay for same - and possibly have the merchant seal or mark the purchase in some way to insure no government tampering with the "evidence" - and then take the product away for analysis to insure it complies with the labeling. Analytical results - either good or bad - should be publicly available as soon as the analysis is finished. The government should prosecute whoever had done the final packaging of the product in the event of fraud or other crimes.

Edited by user 03 March 2013 14:12:47(UTC)  | Reason: Crime AND punishment. And more...

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