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richard
#1 Posted : 19 January 2013 15:25:36(UTC)
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When he says that we need to be members of the EU to gain access to the Single Market, Mr Cameron should be aware that this is what he is getting (illustrated above). "Trade policy", says the EU Commission, "is an exclusive power of the EU – so only the EU, and not individual member states, can legislate on trade matters and conclude international trade agreements".

What Mr Cameron should also be aware of is that this has wide-ranging practical implications, the like of which have barely been spelled out in any public forum. We must stay in the EU, he says, because "we need a say in the rules of that market".

Take for instance, our car industry which last year produced 1.58 million cars, exporting a record amount. Much of that success, we are told, is the result of the Single Market, and if we left the EU, much of the car industry would move out of Britain – presumably because Britain no longer would have a say in making the rules.

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Nottoobrite
#2 Posted : 19 January 2013 15:51:17(UTC)
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Not wanting to upset anyone but as I am Notoobrite I have come to the decision that, I, knowing the difference between a nut and a bolt would, after taking lessons in reading, listening and understanding what you are told, then reading EUReferndum every day would make a super Prime minister.
stanleybucket
#3 Posted : 19 January 2013 16:04:38(UTC)
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Now you have highlighted so well the EU's 'middleman's' distribution of other high level agreements. Here's a classic example from the Guardian, it involves 140 countries and their waste mercury levels - a report today on the UN Environment Programme (UNEP).
richard
#4 Posted : 19 January 2013 16:26:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: stanleybucket Go to Quoted Post
Now you have highlighted so well the EU's 'middleman's' distribution of other high level agreements. Here's a classic example from the Guardian, it involves 140 countries and their waste mercury levels - a report today on the UN Environment Programme (UNEP).


Brilliant!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...nce-environment-21078176

Global governance in action ... the EU will then adopt the rules.

The treaty is at the initiative of Switzerland ... In Europe, rules by Switzerland ...

http://www.unep.org/news...;ArticleID=9367&l=en

and ...

"Initial funding to fast track action until the new treaty comes into force in the expected three to five years’ time has been pledged by Japan, Norway and Switzerland."

Fax diplomacy? Presumably, they're faxing the cheques?

.

Edited by user 19 January 2013 16:37:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Niall Warry
#5 Posted : 19 January 2013 16:51:42(UTC)
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Excellent post and making abundantly clear that Dave and his ilk don't have a clue what is going on.

What earthly good do they serve?

If they were funny we could at least have a laugh at their expense!

We can only hope in time the truth will get through and work like yours is all grist to the mill.

Dave Evans
#6 Posted : 19 January 2013 18:27:02(UTC)
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Doubtless at some stage, Graham will come along with his repeal the ECA and "With one bound we were free" meme.

He's not going to like this but...

Quote:
Trade policy is an exclusive power of the EU – so only the EU, and not individual member states, can legislate on trade matters and conclude international trade agreements".


I suspect that means we would be leaving the EU with no trade agreements with any nation in place. In other words, screwed.
richard
#7 Posted : 19 January 2013 19:00:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dave Evans Go to Quoted Post
Doubtless at some stage, Graham will come along with his repeal the ECA and "With one bound we were free" meme.

He's not going to like this but...

Quote:
Trade policy is an exclusive power of the EU – so only the EU, and not individual member states, can legislate on trade matters and conclude international trade agreements".


I suspect that means we would be leaving the EU with no trade agreements with any nation in place. In other words, screwed.


You forgot the magic wand, waving, for the use of.

marcelus
#8 Posted : 21 May 2013 00:44:39(UTC)
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In any global negotiations such as this, the DG Trade position is defined by the strength of national preferences. Any submissions from Whitehall or other countries with large auto industries would absolutely be adopted to the negotiating position. The working groups are only a minor part of the influence national governments have. There are Brussels-based UK civil servants who have a huge say on things like this, if they want to have a say and in this case the UK car industry itself would also have lobbied heavily.

It doesn't matter if Norway had a seat at the table. Nobody cares what they think because they're small and insignificant. You can be damn sure that the EU dictated the play. The, UK on its own couldn't even dream of influencing discussions such as this in the way the EU can and there's no way in hell Norway has more of a say over any agreed auto technical standards than the UK does.

Your argument is based on a strict interpretation of EU governance structures and an international regulatory body but is ignorant of how these institutions work in practice.
Road_Hog
#9 Posted : 21 May 2013 06:17:03(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marcelus Go to Quoted Post
The, UK on its own couldn't even dream of influencing discussions such as this in the way the EU can


You sound like an EU employee troll.

richard
#10 Posted : 21 May 2013 09:19:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marcelus Go to Quoted Post
In any global negotiations such as this, the DG Trade position is defined by the strength of national preferences. Any submissions from Whitehall or other countries with large auto industries would absolutely be adopted to the negotiating position. The working groups are only a minor part of the influence national governments have. There are Brussels-based UK civil servants who have a huge say on things like this, if they want to have a say and in this case the UK car industry itself would also have lobbied heavily.

It doesn't matter if Norway had a seat at the table. Nobody cares what they think because they're small and insignificant. You can be damn sure that the EU dictated the play. The, UK on its own couldn't even dream of influencing discussions such as this in the way the EU can and there's no way in hell Norway has more of a say over any agreed auto technical standards than the UK does.

Your argument is based on a strict interpretation of EU governance structures and an international regulatory body but is ignorant of how these institutions work in practice.




Norway plays quite a skilled game, defending its interests where it has a strong economic presence, and yielding on issues which are of less importance it it. Thus, it is extremely powerful on the Codex fish and fish products committee, which it chairs, but less so where its interests are not so acute.

Your pastiche argument is drawn from the level two Janet and John manual. It is partially true, but not wholly so. The work on international committees is largely conducted by consensus, and if Noway decided, for instance, to expend the political capital on "throwing a strop" on a particular issue, by threatening to block proceedings, and then to vote against it and other measures, it would probably get its way. There would be a political price to pay, but that is how the game works.

Negotiations, therefore, have elements not dissimilar to three-dimensional chess, where there are a myriad of positions and permutations. There is no one scenario that covers them all. Thus, while the EU is indeed a powerful player, in its own way - in issues of interest to it - so is Norway and, despite not being fully absorbed into the EU collective, punches above its weight. Skillfully handled positions by the UK, outside the EU matrix would have like effect.

Edited by user 21 May 2013 11:07:21(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

 1 user thanked richard for this useful post.
berfel on 21/05/2013(UTC)
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