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richard
#1 Posted : 01 February 2013 09:46:33(UTC)
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For anyone who might have thought that the Daily Telegraph in general, and Ambrose Evans-Pritichard in particular, was going to be in the side of the angels during any referendum campaign, today's article is the wake-up call. It combines the straw man technique with scary headline to produce a "perfect storm" of FUD, guaranteed to send all the City wuzzies scurrying to their bunkers to count their bonuses.

Classic of its genre, the hook on which Ambrose bases his scary movie is Athanasios Orphanides a former member of the European Central Bank's governing council.

Orphanides is a member of the euro-elite and just the sort of person one would go to for a dispassionate account of Britain's prospects outside the EU. This is the man who served as Governor of the Central Bank of Cyprus, the country with a banking sector equal to 835 percent of its GDP, so large it is threatening to destablise the euro.

View full article here
matokete
#2 Posted : 01 February 2013 11:35:33(UTC)
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Very surprised by the authorship of this article this morning. From his previous "form" in seeing through all manner of euro-rubbish.........does'nt sound like Ambrose at all.

An abberation?
middle-class lefties are parasites
#3 Posted : 01 February 2013 12:06:41(UTC)
middle-class lefties are parasites

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Originally Posted by: matokete Go to Quoted Post
Very surprised by the authorship of this article this morning. From his previous "form" in seeing through all manner of euro-rubbish.........does'nt sound like Ambrose at all.

An abberation?


He's certainly taking a hiding in the commentsBigGrin



richard
#4 Posted : 01 February 2013 12:15:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: middle-class lefties are parasites Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: matokete Go to Quoted Post
Very surprised by the authorship of this article this morning. From his previous "form" in seeing through all manner of euro-rubbish.........does'nt sound like Ambrose at all.

An abberation?


He's certainly taking a hiding in the commentsBigGrin







I'm not surprised. When push came to shove, Ambrose was always going to be on the dark side. Like so many he will flirt with euroscepticism, but will never consummate.

Edited by user 01 February 2013 12:16:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

J A King
#5 Posted : 01 February 2013 12:25:09(UTC)
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I think the biggest problem of "europe" is also the largest problem of any other nation.

The problem is fiat money. Its a major problem that will only ever bankrupt the world. Would like to see a return to a standard (does not really matter what the standard is, Gold, Silver, Platinum...... whatever, just so long as money has a defined value) this regulates itself, it prevents governments becoming too big or living beyond their means. If forces discipline, which is why governments dont like it.

Sound money is something I do think should be added into the Harrogate agenda.
F U Fed Up
#6 Posted : 01 February 2013 12:29:26(UTC)
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The banking system that this clown oversaw, was also "rumoured" to be the main Russian Mafia/Ruleing Elite money laundering centre....that's why it became so vast in comparison to the peasant economy supposedly underpinning it.

Yet again we see someone who is doing very nicely, to put it mildly tks to the EU, trying to protect their wallets, if it wasn't for the EU he'd be herding goats and no doubt loseing most of them.

As for Ambrose...there is no way back now, utter tosh from start to finish...last time I checked neither Singapore or Hong Kong were in the EU and both thrive off Financial Services.

That said the best way to protect the City is to jail 99 % of senior management and then the rest might just start to become slightly honest again.
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richard on 01/02/2013(UTC)
richard
#7 Posted : 01 February 2013 12:40:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: F U Fed Up Go to Quoted Post


That said the best way to protect the City is to jail 99 % of senior management and then the rest might just start to become slightly honest again.



BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Bit risky that ... letting one percent go free.


You're right about Ambrose though. He's crossed the Rubicon. Athanasios Orphanides as a credible source? He really must be kidding.
ELF
#8 Posted : 01 February 2013 13:24:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Athanasios Orphanides as a credible source? He really must be kidding.

No wiggle room on that one. A thriving Cypriot banking industry has gone bust on his watch.

Edited by user 01 February 2013 13:28:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

ELF
#9 Posted : 01 February 2013 13:37:10(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: F U Fed Up Go to Quoted Post
...last time I checked neither Singapore or Hong Kong were in the EU and both thrive off Financial Services.


Switzerland doesn't do so badly either.
comet
#10 Posted : 01 February 2013 14:00:28(UTC)
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I wonder if it's herd instinct or people like AEP are taken aside and told which side their bread is buttered on.
richard
#11 Posted : 01 February 2013 14:07:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: comet Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if it's herd instinct or people like AEP are taken aside and told which side their bread is buttered on.



I think it is the circles in which he moves. His journalist pals, and all his city mates are telling him that leaving the EU would be a "bad thing" and it's time to come back into line.

George Earle
#12 Posted : 01 February 2013 15:22:09(UTC)
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I wouldn't want to shoot the messenger, particularly not this one. Although it gives obvious encouragement to the corporatists now putting out the FUD, this article should also bestir economists and city men on our side to refute these arguments and make the positive case for thriving outside EU. The amount of anti-Ambrose posts is encouraging. I like to think that a FT Agreement made with the EurozoneEU as we leave would cover supplying financial services.
comet
#13 Posted : 01 February 2013 16:09:03(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: George Earle Go to Quoted Post
I wouldn't want to shoot the messenger, particularly not this one. Although it gives obvious encouragement to the corporatists now putting out the FUD, this article should also bestir economists and city men on our side to refute these arguments and make the positive case for thriving outside EU. The amount of anti-Ambrose posts is encouraging. I like to think that a FT Agreement made with the EurozoneEU as we leave would cover supplying financial services.



It's the apparent about turn and the fact that AEP now appears to be relaying scare mongering propaganda from tainted sources.

Here's an interesting take on it from The Slog.

http://hat4uk.wordpress....tween-the-eu-and-the-uk/

The whole financial system and banking system in the EU and the EU is a mess of unpayable debt, which has to be glossed over and ignored. It's like the coyote in the cartoons who runs off the edge of a cliff and doesn't fall as long as he keeps running and doesn't accept there's nothing supporting him but air.

If the Eurozone is petrified into bailing out Cyprus, they're certainly not going to mess with the City and precipitate a global collapse. So all we see here is empty scaremongering to frighten us into staying in the EU.
nemesis
#14 Posted : 01 February 2013 16:34:03(UTC)
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I ditto JA King and Comet. That the whole financial system will collapse used to be conspiracy theory territory but now seems to be a lot more mainstream now. It could be that events precipitate us. No one seems to know the 'when' or 'how' but to my mind it has passed the point of repair.
richard
#15 Posted : 01 February 2013 16:46:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: comet Go to Quoted Post


The whole financial system and banking system in the EU and the EU is a mess of unpayable debt, which has to be glossed over and ignored. It's like the coyote in the cartoons who runs off the edge of a cliff and doesn't fall as long as he keeps running and doesn't accept there's nothing supporting him but air.

If the Eurozone is petrified into bailing out Cyprus, they're certainly not going to mess with the City and precipitate a global collapse. So all we see here is empty scaremongering to frighten us into staying in the EU.


Like I said ...

"So huge is the London market, as one of the hubs of the global banking system, that if the ECB tried on predatory policies, it would be buried. Already fragile, the euro would be shattered by the onslaught of hostile trading, and the euro-wuzzies would be cleaning toilets for a living the following day".
vincent
#16 Posted : 01 February 2013 17:10:13(UTC)
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Much muddying of waters going on here,and many agendas to protect.Bottom line is we cannot trust what anyone in the sector has to say on this,they are a tarnished bunch and the general voter should see through all of this.We have been badly served by the finance sector and regulatory bodies,both now requiring root and branch reorganisation.

Every nation has had its Orphanides.....we have had Mervyn King failing us on UK banking,the US had Bernanke supervising the biggest taxpayer bailout in history and the Irish central bank equally culpable for catastrophic failures over Anglo Irish.

First we need to get control of our national parliaments back and and then we go to work on sorting the banking sector.....I for one,cannot wait.
richard
#17 Posted : 01 February 2013 17:43:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vincent Go to Quoted Post
Much muddying of waters going on here,and many agendas to protect.Bottom line is we cannot trust what anyone in the sector has to say on this,they are a tarnished bunch and the general voter should see through all of this.We have been badly served by the finance sector and regulatory bodies,both now requiring root and branch reorganisation.

Every nation has had its Orphanides.....we have had Mervyn King failing us on UK banking,the US had Bernanke supervising the biggest taxpayer bailout in history and the Irish central bank equally culpable for catastrophic failures over Anglo Irish.

First we need to get control of our national parliaments back and and then we go to work on sorting the banking sector.....I for one,cannot wait.



It was suggested elsewhere that we lock 99 percent of them up. Sounds good for parliament as well.

vincent
#18 Posted : 01 February 2013 19:27:43(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vincent Go to Quoted Post
Much muddying of waters going on here,and many agendas to protect.Bottom line is we cannot trust what anyone in the sector has to say on this,they are a tarnished bunch and the general voter should see through all of this.We have been badly served by the finance sector and regulatory bodies,both now requiring root and branch reorganisation.

Every nation has had its Orphanides.....we have had Mervyn King failing us on UK banking,the US had Bernanke supervising the biggest taxpayer bailout in history and the Irish central bank equally culpable for catastrophic failures over Anglo Irish.

First we need to get control of our national parliaments back and and then we go to work on sorting the banking sector.....I for one,cannot wait.



It was suggested elsewhere that we lock 99 percent of them up. Sounds good for parliament as well.



TemptingBigGrin .....I' d be just as happy if we just had more financially clued up politicians(and voters),most are happy to leave it to the money men....and that is how we all end up shafted.Neither the BoE or ECB stopped this happening,so really why should we care who runs that particular show.I think you used the phrase "two bald men fighting over a comb" a while back....seems about right on this.Why should the public care who wins that battle, the big financial corporates win and the public loses.

We just need money putting back into real manufacturing again and lose our reliance on the finance sector.Financial sector wealth generation is a mirage.

Edited by user 01 February 2013 19:30:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Aurelian on 02/02/2013(UTC)
JulianTheSceptic
#19 Posted : 01 February 2013 19:58:37(UTC)
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Graham Bishop is also listed as a Director of the Federal Trust, a well-known 'charity' lobbying for federalism
https://www.duedil.com/d...3/graham-porteous-bishop

'Friends of Europe' have been covered, note that their 'partners' include the FT, and most of their money allegedly comes from the European Commission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Europe

Giles Merritt was actually cheer-leader for Blair as EU President
http://www.guardian.co.u.../eu-tony-blair-president


Suspect Ambrose obligingly reproduced a dissembling piece of propaganda written for him, although the good news is that those Telegraph readers with a brain are scathing in their comments (amidst all the trolls and clucking turkeys who just like the sound of their own voice).

The Lisbon Treaty is actually quite strict on the principle of free trade and the free movement of capital between EU and third countries, allowing only exceptionally justified and temporary restriction - for a few months. Measures that constituted 'arbitrary discrimination' or 'disguised restriction on the free movement of capital and payments' might be immediately actionable.
The article suggests they've been considered and dropped.

As regards Deutsche Bank and BNP Paribas being under political pressure to repatriate operations, we've had this guff before, too from Kamal Ahmed, who is too gullible to suss Deutsche are actively trying to diversify away from Germany, e.g. they have a listing on NYSE.

As the French bankers are no doubt salivating at the prospect of paying Hollande's super-taxes as the price of saying 'merde' to the pesky rosbifs, I suspect there will be just a little resistance to any 'political pressure'.

Edited by user 01 February 2013 20:00:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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richard on 01/02/2013(UTC)
J A King
#20 Posted : 01 February 2013 20:26:31(UTC)
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Like i said, there is an answer to the woe, that answer is sound money. (money that is defined in value) will we ever have it again? well under the current political party regeme, i doubt it, at least not untill we have gone though rack and ruin first
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Aurelian on 02/02/2013(UTC)
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