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richard
#1 Posted : 28 January 2013 23:26:03(UTC)
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I did a broadcast for Canadian television yesterday on the referendum, telling my interrogator that the EU is a matter of detail. Unless you master that, I said, you will never really understand what is going on.

This is a theme I have rehearsed many times, and part of the fascination of the headline subject – the mackerel dispute – is that the detail is almost mind-boggling in its complexity. But what is also fascinating is the way that the so-called "eurosceptic" press has barely touched the issue, leaving it to the "soft left" such as The Guardian, which gets it completely wrong.

You would have thought, though, that with Monday's Fisheries Council meeting potentially having a major impact on British interests, the media might have taken an interest. But apart from a piece on the BBC Scotland website, and in The Scotsman, one struggles to find any significant British media interest.

View full article here
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letmethink on 29/01/2013(UTC)
Ravenscar
#2 Posted : 29 January 2013 00:18:19(UTC)
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I am speaking to the converted on this blog but to all those [lurkers - we know you are there...]. EU-delusionists, who constantly bang on about the 'fact' that being in a large bloc of states means that the UK's bargaining power is increased thereby, patently it is not effective, nor is it advantageous in the case of the great and shifty mackerel palaver.

Same with CAP, what suits the olive farmer in the campo glorioso, or le paysan and his Provence family small holding - does not always [never?] suit the Norfolk cereal farmer.

The iniquitous CAP, is a blight on the whole of European Union, it's protectionist and baleful regime of tariffs increases consumer prices on food - which does impact on each and every citizen in the EU.

Edited by user 29 January 2013 00:18:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

letmethink
#3 Posted : 29 January 2013 06:58:14(UTC)
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You're right, this is mind-numbingly complicated.

One point. This has been going on for three years?

The UNCLOS has a clearly defined dispute resolution process including arbitration.

Have the parties not gone down this route ?
richard
#4 Posted : 29 January 2013 08:27:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: letmethink Go to Quoted Post
You're right, this is mind-numbingly complicated.

One point. This has been going on for three years?

The UNCLOS has a clearly defined dispute resolution process including arbitration.

Have the parties not gone down this route ?



No ... they are using a truncated WTO procedure. Where one or more parties to a dispute are clearly in the wrong and are not prepared to negotiate, the aggrieved parties are entitled to impose trade sanctions without breaching free-trade rules. In this case, the evidence of "wrong" is the breach of the UNCLOS UNFSA, where the RFMO has broken down (the maintenance of which being a core part of the agreement). The sanctions are intended (and can only be applied) as part of the resolution procedure, to bring the parties back to the negotiating table, and then to agree a fisheries management plan via the NEAFC, with the TAC being calculated on the basis of the SSB rather than food supply balance.

Simples really.



.

Edited by user 29 January 2013 08:28:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ravenscar
#5 Posted : 29 January 2013 10:14:43(UTC)
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This is interesting, very interesting actually - the grand burgher of Ruritania collapsed and died because of sepsis caused by inattention to an open sore on his little toe......

Quote:

Mario Draghi, the European Central Bank’s chief, said a collapse of EU debt talks with Cyprus or a forced restructuring would “undo the positive mood” that has calmed European markets since July.

Mr Draghi told Der Spiegel that Cypriot banks are big enough to pose a systemic risk to the eurozone. They conduct 40pc of their operations in Greece and are a key part of the Greek banking system.


AEP financial bit of DT
comet
#6 Posted : 29 January 2013 10:42:54(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ravenscar Go to Quoted Post

Same with CAP, what suits the olive farmer in the campo glorioso, or le paysan and his Provence family small holding - does not always [never?] suit the Norfolk cereal farmer.

The iniquitous CAP, is a blight on the whole of European Union, it's protectionist and baleful regime of tariffs increases consumer prices on food - which does impact on each and every citizen in the EU.



The CAP was one of the things it was all about and designed to avoid social and electoral problems in France. The notion was that it was better to have expensive but reliable sources of food than cheap but volatile supplies from the world market. It lead to butter mountains and wine lakes. Britain was at a disadvantage because our agriculture had been mechanised since WWII which forced it to be more efficient.

Certainly in Normandy these days, there seem to be huge fields, plenty of mechanisation and few peasant farmers, so I'm not sure the small holding idea is as true as it was. It does seem to be a huge cumbersome and corrupt racket, farming the subsidies.

In the case of the UK, as with most things EU, at least some of the damage is self-inflicted. E.g. Margaret Beckett's overblown Farm Payments scheme which ended in fiasco, and which we ended up paying EU fines for.



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Ravenscar on 29/01/2013(UTC)
Ravenscar
#7 Posted : 29 January 2013 10:43:16(UTC)
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What we do not take into consideration perhaps is the ethos and mind set of the islanders such as the Faroese [and Icelanders] - these boys climb down 600' cliffs to catch sea birds for food - their ancesters lived a precarious existence, subsistent level only depending on fish, the sea and their own seamanship skills. Be assured - they will defend their rights as they see it and EU, Russia and Britain be damned.
Have a look in the archive - look up 'Cod War' and that was pretty rough and sometimes vicious stuff - everything but shooting.
richard
#8 Posted : 29 January 2013 10:46:34(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ravenscar Go to Quoted Post
What we do not take into consideration perhaps is the ethos and mind set of the islanders such as the Faroese [and Icelanders] - these boys climb down 600' cliffs to catch sea birds for food - their ancesters lived a precarious existence, subsistent level only depending on fish, the sea and their own seamanship skills. Be assured - they will defend their rights as they see it and EU, Russia and Britain be damned.
Have a look in the archive - look up 'Cod War' and that was pretty rough and sometimes vicious stuff - everything but shooting.




And give as good as they get ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21206881
ELF
#9 Posted : 29 January 2013 10:53:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ravenscar Go to Quoted Post
This is interesting,..


From reading a few other sources as this has been developing (sorry, didn’t retain the links) there is an alternative angle on this. Right or wrong, I wouldn’t like to say. Anyhow, they don’t want Cyprus to exit the EZ – re. “existential threat”. But bailouts were originally forbidden under the treaties, and they justified bending/breaking the rules as an emergency measure in response to systemic risk. So, Cyprus has to be declared a systemic risk, irrespective of whether it is or not, so that it can be bailout out.

The Cyprus government is currently being awkward over the Troika austerity conditions. I’d guess Schauble’s line was the usual “don’t be too awkward because we can afford to let you sink” message.
comet
#10 Posted : 29 January 2013 11:36:27(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ravenscar Go to Quoted Post
What we do not take into consideration perhaps is the ethos and mind set of the islanders such as the Faroese [and Icelanders] - these boys climb down 600' cliffs to catch sea birds for food - their ancesters lived a precarious existence, subsistent level only depending on fish, the sea and their own seamanship skills. Be assured - they will defend their rights as they see it and EU, Russia and Britain be damned.
Have a look in the archive - look up 'Cod War' and that was pretty rough and sometimes vicious stuff - everything but shooting.




And give as good as they get ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21206881


From that link,

Quote:

"Europe is the problem," Olafur Ragnar Grimsson said at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

"It is paradoxical that Europeans see themselves as the most enlightened policy makers in the world," he added.


Which reminded me of this from a few years back

http://eureferendum.blog...stealing-their-fish.html

There was a fishing industry on the West Coast of Africa. As I recall dried fish produced was sold in much of Western and Central Africa. The EU cooked up a deal with African governments which depleted the stocks, destroyed the local industry and lead to an influx of unwanted African immigrants.

For obvious reason - too many people making decisions who don't really have a dog in the fight and who know nothing about it - with regard to fisheries, everything the EU touches turns to shit.
letmethink
#11 Posted : 29 January 2013 12:59:55(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: letmethink Go to Quoted Post
You're right, this is mind-numbingly complicated.

One point. This has been going on for three years?

The UNCLOS has a clearly defined dispute resolution process including arbitration.

Have the parties not gone down this route ?



No ... they are using a truncated WTO procedure. Where one or more parties to a dispute are clearly in the wrong and are not prepared to negotiate, the aggrieved parties are entitled to impose trade sanctions without breaching free-trade rules. In this case, the evidence of "wrong" is the breach of the UNCLOS UNFSA, where the RFMO has broken down (the maintenance of which being a core part of the agreement). The sanctions are intended (and can only be applied) as part of the resolution procedure, to bring the parties back to the negotiating table, and then to agree a fisheries management plan via the NEAFC, with the TAC being calculated on the basis of the SSB rather than food supply balance.

Simples really.



.


A definition of 'simple' that I've previously not come across.

Not only complicated but on the surface quite stupid.

Presumably the EU made the representation to the WTO as the aggrieved party, which might then lead to sanctions.

This seems to be pretty heavy-handed unless they have first gone through the UNCLOS dispute resolution and arbitration procedure.

There is even a well-established organisation to deal with exactly these disputes under the UNCLOS: -

International Tribunal for the Law Of the Sea

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