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richard
#1 Posted : 25 January 2013 10:38:25(UTC)
Richard

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We shouldn't be at all surprised, but Reuters is turning out to be a major scare-factory, offering this FUD-laden headline to the retail media. This one has Mark Rutte, the Dutch PM and one of Cameron's supposed allies, telling the world that Britain leaving the EU would be a "disaster".

So far, the British media haven't bitten, probably because Rutte isn't a household name, but there are hidden depths to the Reuters piece which offer some clues as to sentiment on the continent.

Rutte, speaking at Davos, concedes that "Europe needed to reform”, but then rules out "special favours" for one country. He argues for the need to "restore economic competitiveness" – assuming that the competence was ever there in the first place – to "reduce the running costs of the Union" and to "focus on subsidiarity".

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middle-class lefties are parasites
#2 Posted : 25 January 2013 11:30:41(UTC)
middle-class lefties are parasites

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So if we categorise the FUDs, we have:

EU area politicians like Rutte;
Self-interested corporates like Branson;
Gravy train hustlers like Clegg.

None of these types are warmly regarded in the UK, so the only problem. as I see it, with demolishing them is access to the UK media.
Blogs are great as far as they go, but most people will still form opinions based on whatever bilge the BBC is dishing out.

How do we go about tackling media bias?
richard
#3 Posted : 25 January 2013 12:00:50(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: middle-class lefties are parasites Go to Quoted Post
So if we categorise the FUDs, we have:

EU area politicians like Rutte;
Self-interested corporates like Branson;
Gravy train hustlers like Clegg.

None of these types are warmly regarded in the UK, so the only problem. as I see it, with demolishing them is access to the UK media.
Blogs are great as far as they go, but most people will still form opinions based on whatever bilge the BBC is dishing out.

How do we go about tackling media bias?




We don't. We by-pass it. We can never succeed by attempting to take on the media full-frontal.

Look to the samizdat of the Soviet Union ... if information can be spread in a totalitarian society without the aid of the media, then we can do it here. But there is a matter of perception. Reading samizdat was regarded as an act of rebellion. We have to give reading blogs a similar cachet.

F U Fed Up
#4 Posted : 25 January 2013 12:38:25(UTC)
F U Fed Up

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The EU project is a Cats Cradle, undo one part and all the others start falling apart. Once one country is given the time of day, all the other countries line up for concessions and repatriation of powers.

Such an idea is anathema to the colleagues, it puts a giant stake into the Aquis communitaire, as they know that once it starts, they'll ultimately be left directing traffic in Brussels, (which should ensure utter chaos)....that's why the Dutch PM is squealing. No doubt the colleagues have told him to say what he did, as a supposed ally......they are terrified and it's not for their dream, such types haven't an idealogical bone in their body, they are terrified of loseing their lifestyles, which is all they care about..

Edited by user 25 January 2013 12:39:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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silverfox on 25/01/2013(UTC)
mmatis
#5 Posted : 25 January 2013 13:09:57(UTC)
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Just think. There really is not yet even serious consideration of a referendum by Your Betters, yet they are already rolling out this bleating. Can you imagine the cacophony that will ensue should a popular vote be truly required, now that they have seen how those can sometimes go astray? Even when THEY count the votes?
gareth
#6 Posted : 25 January 2013 14:09:00(UTC)
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Subsidiarity is a funny word - supposedly meaning that central government is a subsidiary function to more local authorities with central government doing only what more local governments cannot. To my mind it just looks like a mechanism for central government to hoover up power by declaring itself the most competent authority.
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euSSR Go Home on 25/01/2013(UTC)
richard
#7 Posted : 25 January 2013 14:22:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gareth Go to Quoted Post
Subsidiarity is a funny word - supposedly meaning that central government is a subsidiary function to more local authorities with central government doing only what more local governments cannot. To my mind it just looks like a mechanism for central government to hoover up power by declaring itself the most competent authority.



At an EU level it is ... the centre decides when it applies, meaning that it is top-down.

middle-class lefties are parasites
#8 Posted : 25 January 2013 14:29:28(UTC)
middle-class lefties are parasites

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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: middle-class lefties are parasites Go to Quoted Post
So if we categorise the FUDs, we have:

EU area politicians like Rutte;
Self-interested corporates like Branson;
Gravy train hustlers like Clegg.

None of these types are warmly regarded in the UK, so the only problem. as I see it, with demolishing them is access to the UK media.
Blogs are great as far as they go, but most people will still form opinions based on whatever bilge the BBC is dishing out.

How do we go about tackling media bias?




We don't. We by-pass it. We can never succeed by attempting to take on the media full-frontal.

Look to the samizdat of the Soviet Union ... if information can be spread in a totalitarian society without the aid of the media, then we can do it here. But there is a matter of perception. Reading samizdat was regarded as an act of rebellion. We have to give reading blogs a similar cachet.



A problem with that strategy is that the BBC is lot more subtle than the Soviet media.
Almost nobody in the SU believed the Soviet media, but many millions in the UK still believe every lie and piece of propaganda emanating from the BBC, and of course they never get to hear about all the things that the BBC chooses to omit, which is probably where it has its greatest effect.
Will these millions ever get round to reading blogs?

richard
#9 Posted : 25 January 2013 14:46:31(UTC)
Richard

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Originally Posted by: middle-class lefties are parasites Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: middle-class lefties are parasites Go to Quoted Post
So if we categorise the FUDs, we have:

EU area politicians like Rutte;
Self-interested corporates like Branson;
Gravy train hustlers like Clegg.

None of these types are warmly regarded in the UK, so the only problem. as I see it, with demolishing them is access to the UK media.
Blogs are great as far as they go, but most people will still form opinions based on whatever bilge the BBC is dishing out.

How do we go about tackling media bias?




We don't. We by-pass it. We can never succeed by attempting to take on the media full-frontal.

Look to the samizdat of the Soviet Union ... if information can be spread in a totalitarian society without the aid of the media, then we can do it here. But there is a matter of perception. Reading samizdat was regarded as an act of rebellion. We have to give reading blogs a similar cachet.



A problem with that strategy is that the BBC is lot more subtle than the Soviet media.
Almost nobody in the SU believed the Soviet media, but many millions in the UK still believe every lie and piece of propaganda emanating from the BBC, and of course they never get to hear about all the things that the BBC chooses to omit, which is probably where it has its greatest effect.
Will these millions ever get round to reading blogs?




Only a fraction read samisdat. But I am a great believer in the "power of ideas". Once you get a good idea into the system, it spreads ... I see part of the role as injecting such ideas, where they are picked up and repeated, and eventually become part of the currency. How the process works is unclear, but it does work.

euSSR Go Home
#10 Posted : 25 January 2013 16:32:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gareth Go to Quoted Post
Subsidiarity is a funny word - supposedly meaning that central government is a subsidiary function to more local authorities with central government doing only what more local governments cannot. To my mind it just looks like a mechanism for central government to hoover up power by declaring itself the most competent authority.


Thanks, Gareth. It's one of those slimy deconstructionist words I've learned to hate -- in this case because it sounds impressive, but it's all about subordinating us. Rather as Rutte is presiding over the Dutch, really: you know, one of those nations who voted against the euSSR, but gave the right answer the second time.

Incidentally, with regard to the justification for my moniker Mellow -- a video's going the rounds about how Communism is taking over the US: "Grinding America Down." I know: One doesn't have to agree that America is the greatest nation ever -- it's great enough though --- and that type of rhetoric helps motivate them to preserve themselves.

_____________
Sorry for the late edit ... computer problems.

But they also remind me of something that relates to Dr. N's comments on another thread with regard to the propagation and networking of our information. I think Dr. N, and some other bloggers, are presently doing a wonderful and essential job, and obviously I support it to the best of my ability. However, I suggest that we should beware of putting all our eggs in one net basket! Governments and big business control power and electronic supply systems, and they have a very long record of destroying communications that work against them. We should remember how they smashed the presses of those who published material that opposed them in the 16th and 17th centuries; and we should 'Be Prepared' to use alternative methods of delivery should electricity and electronics fail.

Of course, oral and pictorial communication long preceded mechanical means - and popular ditties, cartoons (and so --> graffiti), and plays/skits etc. are ways open as adjuncts to our cause. Brecht wasn't so original in promoting his 'alienation effect,' after all--- and we won't always have to be that formal or professional.

Edited by user 25 January 2013 19:35:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

middle-class lefties are parasites
#11 Posted : 25 January 2013 16:54:14(UTC)
middle-class lefties are parasites

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Originally Posted by: euSSR Go Home Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gareth Go to Quoted Post
Subsidiarity is a funny word - supposedly meaning that central government is a subsidiary function to more local authorities with central government doing only what more local governments cannot. To my mind it just looks like a mechanism for central government to hoover up power by declaring itself the most competent authority.


Thanks, Gareth. It's one of those slimy deconstructionist words I've learned to hate -- in this case because it sounds impressive, but it's all about subordinating us. Rather as Rutte is presiding over the Dutch, really: you know, those one of those nations who voted against the euSSR, but gave the right answer the second time.

Incidentally, with regard to the justification for my moniker Mellow -- a video's going the rounds about how Communism is taking over the US: "The Grinding Down of America". I know: One doesn't have to agree that America is the greates nation ever -- it's great enough though --- and that type of rhetoric helps motivate them to preserve themselves.

Maybe Capitalist Russia will lead a new cold war against Communist USAOhMyGod



richard
#12 Posted : 25 January 2013 17:11:48(UTC)
Richard

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Originally Posted by: middle-class lefties are parasites Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: euSSR Go Home Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gareth Go to Quoted Post
Subsidiarity is a funny word - supposedly meaning that central government is a subsidiary function to more local authorities with central government doing only what more local governments cannot. To my mind it just looks like a mechanism for central government to hoover up power by declaring itself the most competent authority.


Thanks, Gareth. It's one of those slimy deconstructionist words I've learned to hate -- in this case because it sounds impressive, but it's all about subordinating us. Rather as Rutte is presiding over the Dutch, really: you know, those one of those nations who voted against the euSSR, but gave the right answer the second time.

Incidentally, with regard to the justification for my moniker Mellow -- a video's going the rounds about how Communism is taking over the US: "The Grinding Down of America". I know: One doesn't have to agree that America is the greates nation ever -- it's great enough though --- and that type of rhetoric helps motivate them to preserve themselves.

Maybe Capitalist Russia will lead a new cold war against Communist USAOhMyGod






Flapper

ELF
#13 Posted : 25 January 2013 17:26:44(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: middle-class lefties are parasites Go to Quoted Post
Maybe Capitalist Russia will lead a new cold war against Communist USAOhMyGod


I was watching RT a few months back, and there was a talking heads discussion of the Westphalian model ( not something you would see on the Beeb) . I think it was in the context of the Middle East. (Not that I’m an expert but ..), I can’t see New World Order global governance being compatible with the Russians’ sense of nationalism.
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