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richard
#1 Posted : 22 January 2013 09:45:54(UTC)
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At the end of a fortnight in which international affairs have moved centre stage, says the loss-making Guardian, David Cameron has clawed back ground from Labour. Its lead has been squeezed to five points, after three straight months in which the gap in the polling series has been a solid eight points.

One factor may be the Algerian hostage crisis, which has shifted attention towards terrorism and relations with the Muslim world, but the polling period has also seen the European Union climb up the political agenda, with a promise of a referendum in the offing.

It has been an article of faith in contemporary politics that a high-profile "Europe" is bad for the Conservatives, but this may be changing. And a straw in the wind may be the UKIP vote, down one point to six percent, and trailing well behind the Lib-Dems, who come in at fifteen percent.

View full article here

Watchet
#2 Posted : 22 January 2013 12:16:28(UTC)
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Our attention lately has necessarily been focused on Cameron's long-promised & as-yet-undelivered EU referendum speech. Meanwhile, however, a high-level group - tasked by EU Digital Agenda Commissioner Neelie Kroes with looking at media freedom and pluralism across the EU - has argued that the “insufficient Europeanisation of national politics” risks undermining democracy, and that both the EU institutions and member states ought to “promote increased media coverage of EU affairs”...
See: http://ec.europa.eu/info...lg/hlg_final_report.pdf
Especially its Section 5.2 on pages 39 & 40.

With such thinking as this gaining ground in the EU, as it continues its relentless integrationalist process towards ever closer union, the need to escape from the EU's madness becomes daily more urgent.

Watchet
richard
#3 Posted : 22 January 2013 12:25:31(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Watchet Go to Quoted Post
Our attention lately has necessarily been focused on Cameron's long-promised & as-yet-undelivered EU referendum speech. Meanwhile, however, a high-level group - tasked by EU Digital Agenda Commissioner Neelie Kroes with looking at media freedom and pluralism across the EU - has argued that the “insufficient Europeanisation of national politics” risks undermining democracy, and that both the EU institutions and member states ought to “promote increased media coverage of EU affairs”...
See: http://ec.europa.eu/info...lg/hlg_final_report.pdf
Especially its Section 5.2 on pages 39 & 40.

With such thinking as this gaining ground in the EU, as it continues its relentless integrationalist process towards ever closer union, the need to escape from the EU's madness becomes daily more urgent.

Watchet



This is very dangerous indeed!!!



mosquito
#4 Posted : 22 January 2013 15:03:25(UTC)
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In fact, Neelie Kroes is right. How can the europarliament elections make any claim to democratic legitimacy while they are in fact merely popularity contests between national parties. Tories stand as tories, they never even mention what deals they will be doing with other parties in the EP or what the policies of the grouping are. The papers only see it through the prism of national politics. The people only vote their protest vote at euro polls anyway. If there were any chance at all of a future as a single euro entity that is not how things would happen. So, dangerous as it may be, and futile though the EP is, Kroes is not incorrect. Wrong, wrong as all hell, but not incorrect.
mmatis
#5 Posted : 22 January 2013 17:01:36(UTC)
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Well, at least now a bunch of your fellow countrymen recognize that there's something rotten in France:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/22/us-france-gasleak-idUSBRE90L03M20130122
}:-]
Flashman
#6 Posted : 22 January 2013 17:48:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Watchet Go to Quoted Post
Our attention lately has necessarily been focused on Cameron's long-promised & as-yet-undelivered EU referendum speech. Meanwhile, however, a high-level group - tasked by EU Digital Agenda Commissioner Neelie Kroes with looking at media freedom and pluralism across the EU - has argued that the “insufficient Europeanisation of national politics” risks undermining democracy, and that both the EU institutions and member states ought to “promote increased media coverage of EU affairs”...
See: http://ec.europa.eu/info...lg/hlg_final_report.pdf
Especially its Section 5.2 on pages 39 & 40.

With such thinking as this gaining ground in the EU, as it continues its relentless integrationalist process towards ever closer union, the need to escape from the EU's madness becomes daily more urgent.

Watchet



This is very dangerous indeed!!!





From the telegraph

Quote:
"All EU countries should have independent media councils," the panel concluded. "Media councils should have real enforcement powers, such as the imposition of fines, orders for printed or broadcast apologies, or removal of journalistic status."


Quote:
".........The national media councils should follow a set of European-wide standards and be monitored by the Commission to ensure that they comply with European values."



Never mind Im sure we can rely on Dave Cameron negotiating an opt out for us Confused


http://blogs.telegraph.c...romotes-european-values/

Edited by user 22 January 2013 17:50:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

JulianTheSceptic
#7 Posted : 22 January 2013 18:22:01(UTC)
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I'm not in UKIP, but I think it's hard to say that they have no plan for life after EU. David Campbell Bannerman may have gone back to the Conservatives, but he was a UKIP MEP when he started his 'The Ultimate Plan' blueprint, UKIP stalwarts like Tim Aker helped research it.

http://www.dcbmep.org/?page_id=274
http://www.dcbmep.org/im...The_Ultimate_Plan_B.pdf
- definitely worth a read.

I suppose like the British constitution, a blueprint exists, but not in just one document. They have developed policies on subjects like transport, taxation and immigration control.
JulianTheSceptic
#8 Posted : 22 January 2013 18:46:00(UTC)
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"If Cameron comes up with a credible referendum promise, people who are committed to decoupling from EU political integration will most probably see the Conservatives as their best hope. Support for UKIP at the general election will wither on the vine. "

- Little chance of the former. Most commenting readers of the Mail and Express who don't reveal UKIP sympathies regard Cameron as untrustworthy on Europe.

People I know who are essentially non-political regard Cameron as false and untrustworthy period. It doesn't take very much political nous to see promises made for 2018/9 at the earliest as jam tomorrow, particularly if Cameron looks set not to win the 2015 general election.

There is a general Conservative charm offensive starting at the moment; the party is used to a two year run-in for a general election. One of last year's hot potatoes, road pricing, has definitely been put out of sight, but work goes on to introduce it for lorries UK wide. Procurement documents for the Dartford Crossing tolls specify 'scalability', which means the ability to be adapted to larger tolling projects. Great news for the European Commission that wants road pricing for all vehicles on all roads after 2015 to aid the stricken Galileo project.

The EU (or at least its stooge Sir Roger Carr of the CBI) seems to want us to think that the euro problems have calmed down, but there are several dark horses that could make the EU unpopular and push up the UKIP vote. I am thinking of an influx of Rumanians and Bulgarians, HS2, power cuts, the imposition of wind turbines and smart meters towards renewables obligations. And that's just the immediate ones with some EU connection.
richard
#9 Posted : 22 January 2013 20:02:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JulianTheSceptic Go to Quoted Post
I'm not in UKIP, but I think it's hard to say that they have no plan for life after EU. David Campbell Bannerman may have gone back to the Conservatives, but he was a UKIP MEP when he started his 'The Ultimate Plan' blueprint, UKIP stalwarts like Tim Aker helped research it.

http://www.dcbmep.org/?page_id=274
http://www.dcbmep.org/im...The_Ultimate_Plan_B.pdf
- definitely worth a read.

I suppose like the British constitution, a blueprint exists, but not in just one document. They have developed policies on subjects like transport, taxation and immigration control.


Julian

I hate to rain on anybody's parade, but have you actually read this? See pg 24:

"Why Leaving is Easy: The Step by Step Guide to Leaving the EU"

This, of course, is not an official UKIP document, but it reflects its policy. In the whole document, there are just three pages devoted to the mechanics of leaving ... and precisely the way not to do it.
thespecialone
#10 Posted : 22 January 2013 20:56:20(UTC)
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Whilst I agree with you about Article 50 etc, how would you sell it to those people who are more concerned with "Celebrity Ice Skating" or whatever it is called? People are bored enough with politics as it is and it would be difficult to get them more interested in Article 50 than in what the mass media says to them. Don't forget the vast majority of people only get their news from the likes of the BBC who are still trusted!!
john in cheshire
#11 Posted : 22 January 2013 21:13:53(UTC)
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Richard, offtopic but I feel a need to observe and ask : I really like your prefacing any mention of the guardian newspaper with the words 'loss-making'. Would it not also be appropriate to include 'low circulation', to emphasise their insignificance and undeserved influence with, for example the bbc?
richard
#12 Posted : 22 January 2013 21:18:31(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: thespecialone Go to Quoted Post
Whilst I agree with you about Article 50 etc, how would you sell it to those people who are more concerned with "Celebrity Ice Skating" or whatever it is called? People are bored enough with politics as it is and it would be difficult to get them more interested in Article 50 than in what the mass media says to them. Don't forget the vast majority of people only get their news from the likes of the BBC who are still trusted!!



The truth of the matter is that, in a five-year campaign, the mass of people only come into it at the last stage ... the last six months of so with increasing intensity. Before that, the job is to get the intellectual base right, and then build agreement amongst the activists as to the correct strategy to adopt.

I work on the basic premise that good ideas will spread under their own steam, spreading like a virus, so that you rely on the self-propagating power of the idea. A few months ago, for instance, it seemed as if no one had ever heard of Art 50 - very few people were talking about it. Now it is part of the debate.

Next point, we take on the "magic wand" option of an instant repeal of the ECA. That is going to be less easy, as we are undoing ideas, rather than creating them, and the hard core are going to stick to the last to their fantasy.

Then we have to look in detail at euro-FUD - actual and expected - and draw up counters for people to use. If you like, we are in a re-armament stage, fashioning our weapons and devising our strategy. But the hardest part of the battle is going to be to get our own "side" to abandon ideas that are certain losers, and think strategically. There, I am not at all hopeful.

richard
#13 Posted : 22 January 2013 21:19:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: john in cheshire Go to Quoted Post
Richard, offtopic but I feel a need to observe and ask : I really like your prefacing any mention of the guardian newspaper with the words 'loss-making'. Would it not also be appropriate to include 'low circulation', to emphasise their insignificance and undeserved influence with, for example the bbc?



I can certainly ring the changes. BigGrin

comet
#14 Posted : 22 January 2013 22:29:41(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JulianTheSceptic Go to Quoted Post
"If Cameron comes up with a credible referendum promise, people who are committed to decoupling from EU political integration will most probably see the Conservatives as their best hope. Support for UKIP at the general election will wither on the vine. "

- Little chance of the former. Most commenting readers of the Mail and Express who don't reveal UKIP sympathies regard Cameron as untrustworthy on Europe.

People I know who are essentially non-political regard Cameron as false and untrustworthy period. It doesn't take very much political nous to see promises made for 2018/9 at the earliest as jam tomorrow, particularly if Cameron looks set not to win the 2015 general election.


Cameron was taken on as a token eurosceptic. He promised to leave the EP grouping they were in, and botched it. He quietly ditched the fisheries Green Paper. He excluded members of BOO from front bench positions. He showed every sign of walking the Tory EU tightrope.

He made a serious mistake by calling a party the rank and file were not hostile to and probably voted for in the Euro elections, "fruitcakes and loonies". It would have been wiser to ignore them or damn them with faint praise.

He and Hague badly misjudged the LT business and overplayed the Cast Iron Promise. That was Cameron's most serious mistake. It has given him the Cast Iron tag and robs his current strategy of any possibility of acceptance.

They went on to the Referendum Lock, which strained credulity and the elastic limits of bullshit.

Now Cameron is a liability, they can't get rid of him and he's costing them.

But really, this is not so much to do with Cameron as the Conservative Party having to state its position with regard to the EU when their position has always been calculated dishonesty.

Originally Posted by: JulianTheSceptic Go to Quoted Post

There is a general Conservative charm offensive starting at the moment; the party is used to a two year run-in for a general election. One of last year's hot potatoes, road pricing, has definitely been put out of sight, but work goes on to introduce it for lorries UK wide. Procurement documents for the Dartford Crossing tolls specify 'scalability', which means the ability to be adapted to larger tolling projects. Great news for the European Commission that wants road pricing for all vehicles on all roads after 2015 to aid the stricken Galileo project.

The EU (or at least its stooge Sir Roger Carr of the CBI) seems to want us to think that the euro problems have calmed down, but there are several dark horses that could make the EU unpopular and push up the UKIP vote. I am thinking of an influx of Rumanians and Bulgarians, HS2, power cuts, the imposition of wind turbines and smart meters towards renewables obligations. And that's just the immediate ones with some EU connection.


This is too soon for a serious offensive and most of this has been in support of, or hoping to influence, Cameron's speech. That speech is another botch in the making.

I agree that some of the deciding factors in this will be external to the UK and probably completely blind side.

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