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richard
#1 Posted : 18 January 2013 12:00:42(UTC)
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I'm told that Roland Rudd was on the idiots' lantern last night, sharing his ignorance about "fax law" with the Question Time audience. We also ger Reuters desperate to parade its ignorance in a "factbox" article which tells us that Switzerland and Norway "have to follow much of the bloc's rules but have no power to influence them".

Today's pride of place, though, goes to Gavin Barrett in an opinion piece in the Irish Times, discussing possibility of British exit from the EU. Here, Barrett acknowledges that a Norway-type relationship with the EU with full access to the single market is conceivable, but he then goes on to write: "Norway is effectively in a 'fax union' with the EU – accepting EU regulations without any say in their shaping – as the price for single market access".

So pervasive is this myth that we even have the erudition of Conservative Home poured into the problem, with no expense spared. But not one commentator, any one of which might elsewhere glibly talk about "globalisation", shows any shred of understanding of the background to this issue, and quite how important it is.

View full article here

Edited by user 18 January 2013 12:06:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

ELF
#2 Posted : 18 January 2013 12:24:43(UTC)
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So, in general, it’s a myth that regulation comes to us from the EU, it comes to us via the EU ?

Edited by user 18 January 2013 12:25:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Niall Warry on 18/01/2013(UTC)
Diehard_TH
#3 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:15:38(UTC)
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Quote:
A similar agenda drives the business corporates, who would also much rather see the world grouped into convenient blocs. Nationalism to them, is an anathema. World governance is very much their preferred option, and their view the break-up of regional blocs such as the EU with absolute horror.

This, though, is where the debate needs to lie. It is invisible and unspoken because the politico-media bubble barely understands it and is frightened to talk about it. For, not only is this happening, it creates a world where not even the vestiges of democracy exist.


My bold. Are we sure that the politico-media bubble barely understands it? If Obama gets it then our politicos surely get it too; I can understand the media missing the point but many of the 'inners' and 'faux-outers' must be aware and probably fully supportive of it too.

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mmatis on 18/01/2013(UTC)
richard
#4 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:17:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ELF Go to Quoted Post
So, in general, it’s a myth that regulation comes to us from the EU, it comes to us via the EU ?



Yes, that's a very good way of putting it. It is a wholesaler and distributor rather than a manufacturer.
richard
#5 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:20:58(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Diehard_TH Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
A similar agenda drives the business corporates, who would also much rather see the world grouped into convenient blocs. Nationalism to them, is an anathema. World governance is very much their preferred option, and their view the break-up of regional blocs such as the EU with absolute horror.

This, though, is where the debate needs to lie. It is invisible and unspoken because the politico-media bubble barely understands it and is frightened to talk about it. For, not only is this happening, it creates a world where not even the vestiges of democracy exist.


My bold. Are we sure that the politico-media bubble barely understands it? If Obama gets it then our politicos surely get it too; I can understand the media missing the point but many of the 'inners' and 'faux-outers' must be aware and probably fully supportive of it too.




It is easier to assess what people do know, than what they don't. My impression is that there is an enormous amount of ignorance here. No one has pulled together the big picture. Lot's of people know bits of it, but they don't see how their bits fit in with the others.
mmatis
#6 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:24:20(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ELF Go to Quoted Post
So, in general, it’s a myth that regulation comes to us from the EU, it comes to us via the EU ?



Yes, that's a very good way of putting it. It is a wholesaler and distributor rather than a manufacturer.

With an added qualifier of "in most cases". I believe you would find there are some regulations which indeed DO originate from the EU itself. Although for the bulk of them it is only the middleman. But then who does not truly adore middlemen?
mmatis
#7 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:26:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Diehard_TH Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
A similar agenda drives the business corporates, who would also much rather see the world grouped into convenient blocs. Nationalism to them, is an anathema. World governance is very much their preferred option, and their view the break-up of regional blocs such as the EU with absolute horror.

This, though, is where the debate needs to lie. It is invisible and unspoken because the politico-media bubble barely understands it and is frightened to talk about it. For, not only is this happening, it creates a world where not even the vestiges of democracy exist.


My bold. Are we sure that the politico-media bubble barely understands it? If Obama gets it then our politicos surely get it too; I can understand the media missing the point but many of the 'inners' and 'faux-outers' must be aware and probably fully supportive of it too.


Well said, sir! And do you honestly doubt that the Media is fully supportive of One World Government as well?
richard
#8 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:36:57(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mmatis Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ELF Go to Quoted Post
So, in general, it’s a myth that regulation comes to us from the EU, it comes to us via the EU ?



Yes, that's a very good way of putting it. It is a wholesaler and distributor rather than a manufacturer.

With an added qualifier of "in most cases". I believe you would find there are some regulations which indeed DO originate from the EU itself. Although for the bulk of them it is only the middleman. But then who does not truly adore middlemen?



I wouldn't disagree. We are in a transitional phase. Some law is still generated by the Evil Empire, but the greater part of lawmaking is moving to the global arena. Eventually, the EU will get to make the by-laws on how much we can charge for the public toilets ... if there are any left.

Diehard_TH
#9 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:44:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mmatis Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Diehard_TH Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
A similar agenda drives the business corporates, who would also much rather see the world grouped into convenient blocs. Nationalism to them, is an anathema. World governance is very much their preferred option, and their view the break-up of regional blocs such as the EU with absolute horror.

This, though, is where the debate needs to lie. It is invisible and unspoken because the politico-media bubble barely understands it and is frightened to talk about it. For, not only is this happening, it creates a world where not even the vestiges of democracy exist.


My bold. Are we sure that the politico-media bubble barely understands it? If Obama gets it then our politicos surely get it too; I can understand the media missing the point but many of the 'inners' and 'faux-outers' must be aware and probably fully supportive of it too.


Well said, sir! And do you honestly doubt that the Media is fully supportive of One World Government as well?


Depends what you mean by 'Media'; the owners of said media, probably yes, inasmuch as they then qualify as business corporates. Among the 'hacks' probably not; as Richard says there will be a lot of ignorance.

richard wrote:
It is easier to assess what people do know, than what they don't. My impression is that there is an enormous amount of ignorance here. No one has pulled together the big picture. Lot's of people know bits of it, but they don't see how their bits fit in with the others.


Indeed, although I find it hard to believe that the upper levels of our satrapy (eg Cameron, civil service heads) do not know the bigger picture.
Aurelian
#10 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:50:53(UTC)
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Fascinating, Dr North. So our EU overlords will soon be marginalised in the way that they have already marginalised their UK satraps.

So let's see: Parish Council, Borough Council, County Council, Westminster weasels, the EU, International Overlords ... which layers have I missed?

You can never have too much governance.Huh
Please hold: your call is important to us.
richard
#11 Posted : 18 January 2013 14:01:31(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Aurelian Go to Quoted Post
Fascinating, Dr North. So our EU overlords will soon be marginalised in the way that they have already marginalised their UK satraps.

So let's see: Parish Council, Borough Council, County Council, Westminster weasels, the EU, International Overlords ... which layers have I missed?

You can never have too much governance.Huh




There's a hierarchy to the "international overlords" ... several layers there, as well.

Niall Warry
#12 Posted : 18 January 2013 14:23:58(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Aurelian Go to Quoted Post
Fascinating, Dr North. So our EU overlords will soon be marginalised in the way that they have already marginalised their UK satraps.

So let's see: Parish Council, Borough Council, County Council, Westminster weasels, the EU, International Overlords ... which layers have I missed?

You can never have too much governance.Huh



In Wales, Scotland and NI they have Assembly members. So we have gone from councillor and MP to half a dozen layers above us and we have never been so badly governed as nowCursing

Edited by user 18 January 2013 14:24:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

nemesis
#13 Posted : 18 January 2013 18:58:47(UTC)
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Who funds all these non-entities to sit around chatting and deciding how we all should live? It must appear in accounts somewhere.
mmatis
#14 Posted : 18 January 2013 19:16:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nemesis Go to Quoted Post
Who funds all these non-entities to sit around chatting and deciding how we all should live? It must appear in accounts somewhere.

Mere Citizens fund them. On your side of the Pond, VAT have we here? Or at least that would appear to be a primary funding source, as seen by those of us who are marginally interested from West Pondia.
F U Fed Up
#15 Posted : 18 January 2013 20:21:22(UTC)
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For my sins I watched Question Time.

Painting Norway and Switzerland as victims of Fax Regulation came across, very much as a fact. The EUWhores are going to use that threat constantly against us, they have obviously decided that is something that they can use to scare the general public with. Your paper is going to be a vital rebuttal, to what will plainly be a central plank of their arguement.

They also have the advantage that the Norwegian politicians will confirm their lie.
richard
#16 Posted : 18 January 2013 20:57:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: F U Fed Up Go to Quoted Post
For my sins I watched Question Time.

Painting Norway and Switzerland as victims of Fax Regulation came across, very much as a fact. The EUWhores are going to use that threat constantly against us, they have obviously decided that is something that they can use to scare the general public with. Your paper is going to be a vital rebuttal, to what will plainly be a central plank of their arguement.

They also have the advantage that the Norwegian politicians will confirm their lie.




The paper is running to 30 pages now ... by next week, I should have finished the first draft.

jaguar driver
#17 Posted : 18 January 2013 22:28:53(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: F U Fed Up Go to Quoted Post
For my sins I watched Question Time.

Painting Norway and Switzerland as victims of Fax Regulation came across, very much as a fact. The EUWhores are going to use that threat constantly against us, they have obviously decided that is something that they can use to scare the general public with. Your paper is going to be a vital rebuttal, to what will plainly be a central plank of their arguement.

They also have the advantage that the Norwegian politicians will confirm their lie.


I watched it too, Roland Rudd gave a complete travesty of the truth and no one contradicted him. I can only assume Farage enjoys being a MEP and really has no interest in his supposed task.
He had an open goal there, he could have slaughtered Rudd, but he failed.
Farage ought to have anticipated the Norway question and been ready.Mad

gareth
#18 Posted : 19 January 2013 02:01:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ELF Go to Quoted Post
So, in general, it’s a myth that regulation comes to us from the EU, it comes to us via the EU ?


Yes, that's a very good way of putting it. It is a wholesaler and distributor rather than a manufacturer.

At times being in the EU must be like being gagged if the UK sits around tables like the UNECE but has to promote the EU's position on things.
Aurelian
#19 Posted : 19 January 2013 07:55:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Niall Warry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Aurelian Go to Quoted Post
Fascinating, Dr North. So our EU overlords will soon be marginalised in the way that they have already marginalised their UK satraps.

So let's see: Parish Council, Borough Council, County Council, Westminster weasels, the EU, International Overlords ... which layers have I missed?

You can never have too much governance.Huh

In Wales, Scotland and NI they have Assembly members. So we have gone from councillor and MP to half a dozen layers above us and we have never been so badly governed as nowCursing

Mischievously, I suggest that we need to redouble our efforts, because it's plain that more governance is needed in order to correct the shortcomings in present governance.

If we introduce more layers, our new layers can gently guide the existing ones to a better performance.

Meanwhile I take heart from Dr North's observation that there is a hierarchy to our International Overlords. Organising the personal affairs of several billion people must be a demanding task, and it's good to know that there are structures in place to manage what will soon be a perfect world.


Please hold: your call is important to us.
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