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richard
#1 Posted : 16 January 2013 21:37:44(UTC)
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I am probably not alone in getting a little bit bored with way EU debate is shaping up – or not. We're getting bogged down in circular arguments and there's very little coming out of the legacy media or the usual culprits that is new or interesting.

Even (or especially) Roger Helmer, in dissing Fresh Start, is drawn to recommend a paper by Ruth Lea and Brian Binley for Global Vision, entitled: "Britain and Europe: a new relationship". And there, on page 17 where the EEA is discussed, we see this:
The EEA Agreement is revised frequently reflecting changes in EU legislation to maintain the "principle of homogeneity" of the EEA. The EEA/EFTA member states are given the opportunity to influence the shaping of EU EEA-relevant legislation, but they have little influence on the final EU decisions. They can neither sit nor vote in the major EU legislative institutions. They therefore have to agree to incorporate into the EEA Agreement what has ultimately been decided, if not necessarily shaped, by others. This state of affairs is sometimes referred to as "fax democracy".

View full article here
AutonomousMind
#2 Posted : 16 January 2013 22:28:05(UTC)
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Excellent post exposing the fatuous nature of the arguments Cameron has employed.

The message is clear, to stand tall in the world you need to have your own voice. Getting by with a diluted voice and accepting compromise positions that necessarily don't suit our interests is the price we are being made to pay for the deluded political dream of the European establishment elite.

What also comes across clearly is the quisling attitude of Norway's politicians, who keep misrepesenting the reality of their position as part of their concerted effort to bounce their voters into accepting EU membership - which when it suits the EU, such as in the case of Scotland, is presented as difficult to attain.

And tonight the BBC continues its own pro-EU campaign by continuing their rash of stories explaining how badly EU members are reacting to the supposed tough line being taken by Cameron. Not one BBC report or commentator has examined the eurosceptic case for leaving the union. It's not even bias, it's far worse and far deeper than that.
β€œThe Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
richard
#3 Posted : 16 January 2013 22:36:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: AutonomousMind Go to Quoted Post
Excellent post exposing the fatuous nature of the arguments Cameron has employed.

The message is clear, to stand tall in the world you need to have your own voice. Getting by with a diluted voice and accepting compromise positions that necessarily don't suit our interests is the price we are being made to pay for the deluded political dream of the European establishment elite.

What also comes across clearly is the quisling attitude of Norway's politicians, who keep misrepesenting the reality of their position as part of their concerted effort to bounce their voters into accepting EU membership - which when it suits the EU, such as in the case of Scotland, is presented as difficult to attain.

And tonight the BBC continues its own pro-EU campaign by continuing their rash of stories explaining how badly EU members are reacting to the supposed tough line being taken by Cameron. Not one BBC report or commentator has examined the eurosceptic case for leaving the union. It's not even bias, it's far worse and far deeper than that.




The more and more you look into it, the more inverted the establishment argument looks. But you can't expect the BBC to hack the truth. The poor darlings don't have the capability.

Dave Evans
#4 Posted : 17 January 2013 01:01:38(UTC)
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I'm trying to sell all this to people who are, at best disengaged, at worst, actively hostile.
Some are on the public dole, (some by choice,) others working their arses off to scrape by.
Most are great people but what you may call educationally challenged.
Some have the innate intelligence to see past the first three demands of Harrogate, others can't even get past the first.
I will test fly some of this rule by fax ASAP & see what I get.

Edited by user 17 January 2013 01:08:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

rhaan
#5 Posted : 17 January 2013 02:10:57(UTC)
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The planned speech by Cameron in the Netherlands has turned from a comedy into a farce. Mark Rutten, Cameron's self appointed and alledged "brother in arms" has informed the press that he won't be present at the location where Cameron will be having his speech. This reveals a lot about the character or better put, the lack of character of Mark Rutte. In fact I now regard him as a coward but probably prevents a cabinet crises. In the mean time Government officials, not even familiar with the content of Cameron's speech went beyond limits to state that the Netherlands will continue it's own course in respect to Europe and won't be influenced by the views of Cameron and the UK.

It's a good thing I have given up on my country of birth a long ago. Hopefully the UK eventually overcomes the damages caused by their lunatic government officials. Britania rules the waves again, just hoist your sails and your flag and leave "Little Europe" behind. You've done it before and you can do it again. All you need is the money now squandred on useless wind mills.

Edited by user 17 January 2013 07:37:44(UTC)  | Reason: Paragraph spacing

vincent
#6 Posted : 17 January 2013 09:45:28(UTC)
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Quote:
Here, fortune smiles on Norway. Not only is this country an independent member of the organisation, but, it hosts the all-important Fish and Fisheries Products Committee. Thus, it is the lead nation globally in an area of significant economic importance to itself.



I get the impression you are now fully in "the groove"BigGrin
Dadad
#7 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:04:35(UTC)
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All jolly good stuff, and important. But how to turn it into easy stuff for the man in the street to buy into and articulate to his mates in the pub ?
richard
#8 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:13:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dadad Go to Quoted Post
All jolly good stuff, and important. But how to turn it into easy stuff for the man in the street to buy into and articulate to his mates in the pub ?




I haven't finished the working out yet. Then we have a variety of targets ... not least, the man and woman in Westminster and Whitehall. In the latter context, at least we can let them know we're on to them. The man in the street can wait his turn.

Bob Fox
#9 Posted : 18 January 2013 14:29:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadad Go to Quoted Post
All jolly good stuff, and important. But how to turn it into easy stuff for the man in the street to buy into and articulate to his mates in the pub ?




I haven't finished the working out yet. Then we have a variety of targets ... not least, the man and woman in Westminster and Whitehall. In the latter context, at least we can let them know we're on to them. The man in the street can wait his turn.



To get information to people requires soundbites from the "prestigious " persons invited onto the news programmes. Therefore the first target has to be the politicians who might be supportive of the idea. They need to be given short and punchy arguments that most people can get their heads round, as well as catchphrases.

This Norway fax myth is a problem because it is so often repeated and never refuted. It could become very difficult to dislodge as the generally accepted delusion.
richard
#10 Posted : 18 January 2013 14:55:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bob Fox Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadad Go to Quoted Post
All jolly good stuff, and important. But how to turn it into easy stuff for the man in the street to buy into and articulate to his mates in the pub ?




I haven't finished the working out yet. Then we have a variety of targets ... not least, the man and woman in Westminster and Whitehall. In the latter context, at least we can let them know we're on to them. The man in the street can wait his turn.



To get information to people requires soundbites from the "prestigious " persons invited onto the news programmes. Therefore the first target has to be the politicians who might be supportive of the idea. They need to be given short and punchy arguments that most people can get their heads round, as well as catchphrases.

This Norway fax myth is a problem because it is so often repeated and never refuted. It could become very difficult to dislodge as the generally accepted delusion.
`

It is refuted ... and has been many times ... but not with anyone who has that magic "prestige". Here, we have "anti-prestige" which guarantees with legacy media runs a mile.

Bob Fox
#11 Posted : 18 January 2013 16:23:56(UTC)
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I quite agree, I meant not refuted on the legacy media outlets when they quote someone who makes the "fax" claim.
richard
#12 Posted : 18 January 2013 16:51:07(UTC)
Richard

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Originally Posted by: Bob Fox Go to Quoted Post
I quite agree, I meant not refuted on the legacy media outlets when they quote someone who makes the "fax" claim.



BigGrin

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