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richard
#1 Posted : 13 January 2013 12:04:25(UTC)
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True to form, the old dinosaurs of europhilia are joining forces to protect their precious "Europe". These are Ken Clarke and Lord Mandelson, in what the Observer calls "a historic cross-party bid to turn back the rising tide of Euroscepticism".

This is by no means the first time we have seen such cross party alliances, of course, and although this dreadful pair hardly agree on anything, they are united in their love for their common cause.

Along with Liberal Democrat Lord Rennard, we are thus told that Clarke and Mandelson will spearhead a new organisation, the Centre for British Influence through Europe, (CBIE), which we have already met. It styles itself as "independent" and is set to support a cross-party "patriotic fightback for British leadership in Europe".

View full article here

ivan the yid from bradford
#2 Posted : 13 January 2013 12:52:12(UTC)
ivan the yid from bradford

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To quote 'patriotic fightback for British leadership in Europe".'

The second part obviously should be reworded to read correctly as ' . . . British leadership in the EU'. As Richard regularly points out 'Europe' and the 'EU' are regularly conflated by those who should know better.

That of course would then give us a statement with 'patriotic . . . ' and ' . British leadership in the EU' in the same sentence. No wonder they opted to use 'Europe' instead of 'the EU' as a sentence referring to 'patriotic' and 'EU' in the same sentence would make most sane people want to vomit.

In2minds
#3 Posted : 13 January 2013 15:03:57(UTC)
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Dinosaurs, what's interesting this time around when we do the in-or-out debate is how the left of politics seems absent. There are people who think Ken Clarke should never have been in the Tory party and once again we question the judgement of Cameron for bringing him into the cabinet. Also many people on the left would say Peter Mandelson was never a real member of the Labour party he only represented himself and just used the party as a tool for his own ends.

But in the past eurosceptics from the left included Tony Benn and Austin Mitchell. Today all the left can offer is Gisela Stuart MP who is not the same weight as they were. So what happened? The left/right political dynamic of this debate is worth a look as those of us campaigning for an out result had better work out who to target.

pardon me !

Edited by user 13 January 2013 23:15:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

comet
#4 Posted : 13 January 2013 15:59:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: In2minds Go to Quoted Post
Dinosaurs, what's interesting this time around when we do the in-or-out debate is how the left of politics seems absent. There are people who think Ken Clarke should never have been in the Tory party and once again we question the judgement of Cameron for bringing him into the cabinet. Also many people on the left would say Peter Mandelson was never a real member of the Labour party he only represented himself and just used the party as a tool for his own ends.

But in the past eurosceptics from the left included Tony Benn and Austin Mitchell. Today all the left can offer is Theresa Stewart who is not the same weight as they were. So what happened? The left/right political dynamic of this debate is worth a look as those of us campaigning for an out result had better work out who to target.


After Labour rejected Clause 4, and became Nu Labour, there very largely isn't a left and right any more, just different flavours of Social Democrats (or communitarians). The Tories could be argued to be paternalistic socialists rather than state socialists. They look after their pals but they certainly aren't small state, individual responsibility and free enterprise, although they like to flirt with these ideas.

The Conservative party has always had much greater problems with euroscepticism than the Labour Party, which is why the Tories have long given the impression of desperately trying to keep the lid on a pressure vessel.

I'd guess that as with Tory eurosceptics, people like Mitchell are party loyalists first and eurosceptics second. They see no reason to muddy the waters when the Tories look to be in serious trouble.

Robert of Ottawa
#5 Posted : 13 January 2013 23:03:37(UTC)
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It appears that Euroskeptism and Climate Denial are being given the same treatment. Two excuses for policy of the ruling class are submitted to the same tirade and propaganda treatment.
Robert of Ottawa
#6 Posted : 13 January 2013 23:06:35(UTC)
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Sorry, that should read:

It appears that Euroskeptism and Climate Denial are being given the same treatment. Opposition to the two excuses for policy of the ruling class is submitted to the same tirade and propaganda treatment.

"Editor, your fired"
John Archer
#7 Posted : 13 January 2013 23:16:16(UTC)
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Robert,

You can edit a post by clicking on the Edit button at the bottom top of your post (but only when you are logged in).

Edited by user 13 January 2013 23:17:09(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

William Gruff
#8 Posted : 15 January 2013 04:22:10(UTC)
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Mandelson and Clarke? How have those two survived in an age when the unsubstantiated rumour and the career destroying smear are the political weapons of choice?
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