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richard
#1 Posted : 10 January 2013 22:46:43(UTC)
Richard

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Last summer, many of the political know-alls were convinced we would be having an EU referendum before the next election. Now, almost as if by osmosis, the claque is waking up to the idea that the earliest we might see a referendum is 2017 or 2018. One of the first was The Spectator, which was followed by The Daily Mail. At some time, The Sun and The Times also cottoned on.

What none of these brave adventurers seem to have realised, though, is that this extended time lag – the same length as an entire electoral term – has profound implications for David Cameron.

Given that he has already used up his quota of trust on the "Europe" issue and is already struggling with a massive credibility gap after having refused a referendum on Lisbon, his forthcoming speech is calculated to restore his fortunes and put him back in control of the agenda. Except that the resumption of control rests on his ability to make credible promises.

View full article here
mmatis
#2 Posted : 10 January 2013 23:57:33(UTC)
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I would only say again: "Be wary of wagging dogs."
In2minds
#3 Posted : 11 January 2013 00:49:41(UTC)
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Richard wrote about Cameron -

Quote:
he will light a fire that will devour the Conservative Party and his own career along with it.



This could be beneficial to the general run of politics in the UK. When Blair came along we moved from Labour to Nulabour, apart from a bit of policy shuffling nothing really changed. So rather like a slow puncture in a tyre all the pressure went out of it, it lost its magic. I say the same thing is about to happen to the Tory party.

In a while we may even see an unseemly fight for the leadership of the Tory party much as the one between the Miliband brothers for the remnants of the left. How about Jesse Norman versus Michael Gove, winner takes the bits that work for scrap value?

Get this behind us and the bulk of the nation will be so put off traditional politics that anybody offering something new stands a chance. Enter the Harrogate Agenda!

Please note I left the LibDems out of my thesis as they are such a small thing they make no difference!
john in cheshire
#4 Posted : 11 January 2013 04:55:19(UTC)
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Through my brother I tend to hear the thoughts of what might be called the common people. He appears to believe that They aren't as gullible as our politicians might think..On the basis of what I hear, Mr Cameron should get us out of the EU ASAP, for his own sake.
Aurelian
#5 Posted : 11 January 2013 07:35:24(UTC)
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I conjecture that Mr Cameron will simply fob off the uninformed majority with another cast-iron promise.
Please hold: your call is important to us.
TheBoilingFrog
#6 Posted : 11 January 2013 07:47:57(UTC)
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Quote:
He is thus committed to delivering it within the next few weeks, come what may.


I thought he was due to make it on the 15th, which is Tuesday, has it changed again? Or are we all losing track?

http://www.nucleus.uk.ne...e/category/peter-wilding

Edit: Ah I see it's now the 22nd

http://www.thesun.co.uk/...-Obama-over-EU-plan.html
Quote:

The Sun has learned the PM will spell out his vision of a post-crisis Europe on January 22.

And he will almost certainly make the speech in The Hague.


"Almost certainly", well that's set in stone then...

Edited by user 11 January 2013 09:29:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

richard
#7 Posted : 11 January 2013 09:32:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
He is thus committed to delivering it within the next few weeks, come what may.


I thought he was due to make it on the 15th, which is Tuesday, has it changed again? Or are we all losing track?

http://www.nucleus.uk.ne...e/category/peter-wilding

Edit: Ah I see it's now the 22nd

http://www.thesun.co.uk/...-Obama-over-EU-plan.html
Quote:

The Sun has learned the PM will spell out his vision of a post-crisis Europe on January 22.

And he will almost certainly make the speech in The Hague.


"Almost certainly", well that's set in stone then...




It is slipping all the time ... that clearly reflects the turrmoil in his camp. We think he doesn't know what to do ...

http://yourfreedomandour...tch-or-double-dutch.html
Ravenscar
#8 Posted : 11 January 2013 10:28:41(UTC)
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I have this vision of Dave in his Bullingdon outfit and driving a car, ahead is the wall of death, a mighty stone built wall - the car is heading straight for the wall and Dave is manically smiling and pressing hard on the accelerator.
Robertm
#9 Posted : 11 January 2013 11:15:01(UTC)
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As Cameron has repeatedly said he will not leave the EU he really is up a blind alley. Unable to repatriate powers and unwilling to give an in/out referendum, what is he going to offer?
richard
#10 Posted : 11 January 2013 11:25:01(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Robertm Go to Quoted Post
As Cameron has repeatedly said he will not leave the EU he really is up a blind alley. Unable to repatriate powers and unwilling to give an in/out referendum, what is he going to offer?




http://www.food-design.co.uk/
comet
#11 Posted : 11 January 2013 12:55:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Robertm Go to Quoted Post
As Cameron has repeatedly said he will not leave the EU he really is up a blind alley. Unable to repatriate powers and unwilling to give an in/out referendum, what is he going to offer?


It's long been clear to anyone who's looked at this that he can't renegotiate and repatriate powers. Now I think the message is getting out generally that he can't repatriate powers and that what's passed for Tory policy on the EU is a pack of lies, or a fantasy based on a misconception, or maybe just a great mare's nest, because they don't understand what they are doing.

He can't say we're in and committing to the Euro etc, and he isn't going to say we are getting out, so he really has to plug the renegotiation line (despite what Rumpy Pumpy etc have said) and maybe a referendum at the end of it a long time off. I bet there'll be a lot of padding about going forwards with our European partners and constructive engagement, not sullen isolation, looking forward, not looking back, blah blah. An advanced exercise in fence sitting.

The basic problem is that he can't state an honest and realistic policy on the EU and I get the impression that a lot of senior Tories are getting fed up with that.

It's all wearing very thin. You can only lead people up the garden path a limited number of times before they cotton on

I've always thought his main objective is to get through to the next GE, which he assumes is lost, without rocking the boat..





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