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richard
#1 Posted : 07 January 2013 21:28:11(UTC)
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Unable to fight his corner even on his own blog, after the assertions he made on Norway were challenged, Mats Persson of Open Europe has scuttled off to his Telegraph clog, repeating his propaganda in the hope of reaching a more gullible audience.

However, while desperate to support the Cameron line that Norway, within the EFTA/EEA matrix has "no say" over the framing of EU rules, Persson has been forced to concede that Norway does indeed have some input on the framing of laws. All he will grudgingly allow, though, is that "Oslo has exceptionally limited ability to influence them".

Interestingly, in support of this claim, Perrson cites EU labour laws, which Norway adopts, claiming that this fact supports his contention. But, as before, the real world calls him out as wrong – if not actually lying.

View full article here
AndyBaxter
#2 Posted : 07 January 2013 21:42:49(UTC)
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Hurrah...

Norway actually has influence, control and real SOVEREIGN power to decide its own fate.....well fancy that Mr Persson....

response comes there not......
TheBoilingFrog
#3 Posted : 07 January 2013 23:03:45(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: AndyBaxter Go to Quoted Post
Hurrah...

Norway actually has influence, control and real SOVEREIGN power to decide its own fate.....well fancy that Mr Persson....

response comes there not......


I'm still slightly coming to terms with the fact that simply due to 4 bloggers, and other comments, we have backed legacy media loved Open Europe into a corner to the extent they are rattled. If ever there's an example for the progress of the Harrogate Agenda here is it...

Edited by user 07 January 2013 23:04:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

 1 user thanked TheBoilingFrog for this useful post.
AndyBaxter on 08/01/2013(UTC)
Peter Melia
#4 Posted : 07 January 2013 23:58:08(UTC)
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"Norway's key interests - shipping services. Here, on-board living conditions in sea-going vessels are an issue"
I think not.
For years I was involved in the inspections of ships for prospective buyers.
I inspected ships from owners of many nationalities.
Norwegian ships especially have exceptionally good crew accomodations, among the best in the world. I suppose the issue is something like whether or not there is too much caviar and not enough lobster, or vice-versa, on the menu, or some such.
But as far as living aboard a Norwegian cargo ship, accomodation-wise, they'd leave most modern cruise ships rolling in their wakes.
Just thought I'd mention it.
Flashman
#5 Posted : 08 January 2013 00:48:01(UTC)
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Quote:
I'm still slightly coming to terms with the fact that simply due to 4 bloggers, and other comments, we have backed legacy media loved Open Europe into a corner to the extent they are rattled. If ever there's an example for the progress of the Harrogate Agenda here is it...


Game, set and match. ThumpUp

Edited by user 08 January 2013 00:49:19(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

richard
#6 Posted : 08 January 2013 07:08:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Peter Melia Go to Quoted Post
"Norway's key interests - shipping services. Here, on-board living conditions in sea-going vessels are an issue"
I think not.
For years I was involved in the inspections of ships for prospective buyers.
I inspected ships from owners of many nationalities.
Norwegian ships especially have exceptionally good crew accomodations, among the best in the world. I suppose the issue is something like whether or not there is too much caviar and not enough lobster, or vice-versa, on the menu, or some such.
But as far as living aboard a Norwegian cargo ship, accomodation-wise, they'd leave most modern cruise ships rolling in their wakes.
Just thought I'd mention it.



They are an issue - a competitive issue. The cost of providing good accommodation means that Norwegian vessels are at a trading disadvantage compared with other flag operations which are prepared to cut corners. Norway was seeking to level the "playing field".

DavidJones
#7 Posted : 08 January 2013 07:20:37(UTC)
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I do feel that things are changing. People I meet are beginning to realise what has been happening to us over the last forty odd years. My brother recently set off on a rant about BBC bias (with no prompting from me) and that was a first for him.

At my monthly breakfast club last week somebody asked me for links to the blogs I read - duly sent -including EUReferendum.

The battering Open Europe has taken from the electronic gossipers is wonderful to see!
stuart
#8 Posted : 08 January 2013 07:51:12(UTC)
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Well done Richard. You punch well above your weight. I wonder what a full inquiry into all this would conclude? It seems OE are about as open as the Tory party.
Ravenscar
#9 Posted : 08 January 2013 08:14:08(UTC)
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Open Europe - I've read it over the last few years, all it seems to me to be, is an apologist for the EU and all it's policies, it was somewhat of a surprise to me to hear it [Open Europe] was some sort of sceptic [of the EU] committee/whatever/sink tank/public money sponge.

I mean. Mats is hardly the sharpest tool in the box is he?

Edited by user 08 January 2013 08:15:40(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

richard
#10 Posted : 08 January 2013 08:19:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: stuart Go to Quoted Post
Well done Richard. You punch well above your weight. I wonder what a full inquiry into all this would conclude? It seems OE are about as open as the Tory party.



BigGrin


OE are a Tory front organisation ... Don't forget George Eustice is in there, peddling his reform agenda. On top of that, you have the Leadsom "Fresh Start" project, which is also pushing reform, aided and abetted by OE. She's another one pushing the "little influence" meme ... "The UK would still be subject to most EU regulations, but with little ability to shape them".

http://conservativehome....0/andrea-leadsom-mp.html

And, of course, OE's main backer is Lord Leach ...

http://autonomousmind.wo...-pro-eu-quisling-stooge/

They are all trying to channel the Tory eurosceptics into the reform/renegotiation camp, and thereby diminish the pressure for withdrawal.

Edited by user 08 January 2013 08:24:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

stuart
#11 Posted : 08 January 2013 14:22:16(UTC)
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From the Open Europe website under the "Our Vision" page:


Quote:
Open Europe is an independent think tank, with offices in London and Brussels, set up by leading UK business people to contribute positive new thinking to the debate about the future direction of the European Union. We publish original research on all aspects of EU policy, unearthing high-impact stories and organising events that are attended by policy makers throughout Europe.


While we are committed to European co-operation, we believe that the EU has reached a critical moment in its development. Globalisation, enlargement, successive No votes in EU referenda and the eurozone crisis have discredited the notion of 'ever closer union' espoused by successive generations of political and bureaucratic elites.

Faced with weak economic growth, rising global competition, insecurity and a looming demographic crisis, there is now an urgent need to find a new model for European cooperation, more in tune with modern economic realities and the preferences of citizens.

We believe Europe has the potential to rise to these challenges and thrive as a vibrant economic region in the 21st century. Our vision is of a slimmed-down, outward-looking EU, which:
•facilitates and encourages free trade, internally and globally;
•is democratic, transparent and accountable to citizens;
•doesn't interfere in areas better – or equally well – handled locally or nationally;
•regulates far less but far better;
•is flexible enough to let powers flow back from the EU to its member states, and to let countries integrate with each other to different degrees.

Open Europe believes that an adaptable EU is the right way to reconcile the historic demand of some member states for more integration and the deep-felt desire of many voters for less. It is also likely to be the only way to reconcile the UK to EU membership, as the eurozone crisis forces some countries closer together while the British public and political class increasingly wants to go in the opposite direction. Different national attitudes to defence, neutrality, the euro and border control should be regarded not as temporary exceptions to the EU's ideals but as positive examples of how to square democratic principles and European co-operation. To make our vision a reality, we seek to involve individuals, political parties and organisations across Europe, and to disseminate our ideas widely throughout the world.


It is not called "Open UK"!
comet
#12 Posted : 08 January 2013 17:07:41(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ravenscar Go to Quoted Post
Open Europe - I've read it over the last few years, all it seems to me to be, is an apologist for the EU and all it's policies, it was somewhat of a surprise to me to hear it [Open Europe] was some sort of sceptic [of the EU] committee/whatever/sink tank/public money sponge.



It looks to be there to push the Tory reform/renegotiation/repatriation line and appear to give it some credibility in the guise of independent research. It's far better for people like Cameron to have a source like this to refer to rather than be open to the accusation that they are making it up as they go along and pulling it out of the air with no grasp of detail at all. OE gives the semblance of their position being based on detailed, independent research. Truly independent research could tell you things you don't want to hear and I doubt that's the case here.

That's not to say that everything they come out with is crap, but their essential purpose, to which they have to defer, is to push this ludicrous notion of reform from within, which the Tories have been kidding people with for years.

When it comes to in or out, OE is in favour of in, the same as the Conservative party, and just like the Conservative party, they wrap it up with nebulous reform waffle.

I don't think they are EU stooges so much as Tory stooges. The Tories may be EU stooges so it makes OE EU stooges by proxy.
ChiefyinDurham
#13 Posted : 08 January 2013 18:43:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Peter Melia Go to Quoted Post
"Norway's key interests - shipping services. Here, on-board living conditions in sea-going vessels are an issue"
I think not.
For years I was involved in the inspections of ships for prospective buyers.
I inspected ships from owners of many nationalities.
Norwegian ships especially have exceptionally good crew accomodations, among the best in the world. I suppose the issue is something like whether or not there is too much caviar and not enough lobster, or vice-versa, on the menu, or some such.
But as far as living aboard a Norwegian cargo ship, accomodation-wise, they'd leave most modern cruise ships rolling in their wakes.
Just thought I'd mention it.


I'm presently serving in a ship built for Norwegians, and you are absolutely right. One of the nicest ships I've ever had the pleasure of being appointed to.

Dave Evans
#14 Posted : 08 January 2013 19:35:00(UTC)
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I upset the Failygraph moderation bot by reposting a comment from. yulwaymartyn to stuartn

The comment was...

Are you a member of the compulsory abortion of Spina Bifida foetus' wing of UKIP?

However despicable the sentiment, the comment should never have been expunged from the record!

EDIT: As it is, my reply to Guest: Comment removed looks a little incongruous. Angry

Edited by user 08 January 2013 19:39:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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