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richard
#1 Posted : 01 January 2013 12:49:30(UTC)
Richard

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A useful corrective comes in the Daily Mail today, from Christopher Booker, to "commemorate" the 40th anniversary of our entry into the European Communities.

The piece serves to remind us that entry was perpetrated on the basis of structured deceit, with successive prime ministers (Macmillan and Heath) actively lying as to their broad intentions and the proposed relationship with the Six.

As Booker writes: "As we see from Cabinet papers and other documents of the early Sixties, Prime Minister Harold Macmillan and his 'Europe Minister' Edward Heath were put completely in the picture about the secret 'grand plan'. But in June 1961 the Cabinet formally agreed that it must not be revealed to the British people".

View full article here
TheBoilingFrog
#2 Posted : 01 January 2013 12:55:46(UTC)
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Quote:
"the greatest follow of the modern era".


I guess you mean folly, Richard.

Edit:
Quote:
Cabinet Memorandum of 21 June 962


Guess you mean 1961, this (page 144)

http://filestore.nationa...fs/large/cab-129-105.pdf

Sorry, not trying to be your sub editor BigGrin ...your piece (and Booker's) is fascinating. Much appreciated

Edited by user 01 January 2013 13:34:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

meltemian
#3 Posted : 01 January 2013 13:14:30(UTC)
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Sorry to be OT but have you seen this?
http://www.ref.org.uk/pr...utnandneconomicnlifetime

Looks as though windfarm investment will be even less profitable than expected.
gareth
#4 Posted : 01 January 2013 13:27:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
"the greatest follow of the modern era".


I guess you mean folly, Richard.

Or maybe follow through...
D W Buxton
#5 Posted : 01 January 2013 13:38:47(UTC)
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Well it is nice to know that all you and the excellent Mr. Booker have said is true, we were lied to and it is still the same. The old lies just keep coming.
Ravenscar
#6 Posted : 01 January 2013 14:11:29(UTC)
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Yes, it rates with the Establishment's other greatest lie of the 20th century put about to the volunteers and in the press in July 1914 - "the war will be over by Christmas".


Why oh why, do we continue to fall for their pernicious duplicity - this time; they do not deserve a second chance - times up gentlemen - we are in need of a clear out and of a new way and that: 'le grand projet' has utterly and miserably failed - like we told you it would.

Ant1
#7 Posted : 01 January 2013 18:39:48(UTC)
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Hello all,

If ever there was a reason to exhume a body, strip it of its knighthood and rebury it with a stake through its heart,
Edward Heath has provided it with his pre-EU machinations!

That apart, Happy New Year to all - especially Richard and his band of helpers!

Regards Ant
 1 user thanked Ant1 for this useful post.
Ravenscar on 01/01/2013(UTC)
richard
#8 Posted : 01 January 2013 19:30:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
"the greatest follow of the modern era".


I guess you mean folly, Richard.

Edit:
Quote:
Cabinet Memorandum of 21 June 962


Guess you mean 1961, this (page 144)

http://filestore.nationa...fs/large/cab-129-105.pdf

Sorry, not trying to be your sub editor BigGrin ...your piece (and Booker's) is fascinating. Much appreciated



Auto-correct gave me "follow".

and are you sure you mean pg 144?

silverfox
#9 Posted : 01 January 2013 20:22:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ant1 Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,

If ever there was a reason to exhume a body, strip it of its knighthood and rebury it with a stake through its heart,
Edward Heath has provided it with his pre-EU machinations!

That apart, Happy New Year to all - especially Richard and his band of helpers!

Regards Ant


I have long thought it was a pity Heath was not drowned at birth!
Unfortunately as this was not the case, perhaps the cadaver could be hung in a gibbet, preferably in front of the
Berlaymont as a sign of what might be coming to the 'troughers' there.
Flashman
#10 Posted : 01 January 2013 20:44:46(UTC)
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If it's in the Daily Mail it's now in the mainstream. Excellent work!

ThumpUp
Ant1
#11 Posted : 01 January 2013 21:27:29(UTC)
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Hello Flashman,

To be fair to them, and admitted they'd apparently rather support the Tories, the daily Express has been running a leave-the-EU campaign for a while now. We buy it just for that reason!

Regards Ant
richard
#12 Posted : 01 January 2013 22:10:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ant1 Go to Quoted Post
Hello Flashman,

To be fair to them, and admitted they'd apparently rather support the Tories, the daily Express has been running a leave-the-EU campaign for a while now. We buy it just for that reason!

Regards Ant




The trouble is that, even by the standards of the legacy media, the Express is a shite newspaper.

Ravenscar
#13 Posted : 02 January 2013 00:46:42(UTC)
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Quote:
the Express is a shite newspaper.



I occasionally get to read the Express, though I rarely purchase a copy. Then, if you take with a pinch of salt and read it, mainly the leaders and some of the more cogent reportage [there's not much of that admittedly] - I find that its core beliefs and its 'heart' is in the right place.

Whereas, when I peruse the Mirror or the Graun', the political slant is so overbearing and with biased subtext, even if they are speaking to some truth - it all merges into one block - into a meaningless dirge and melancholic longing and harking for the day: to a return to a Marxist administration led by Miliband and his jackbooted Red shirts. In effect, the left is always correct and more taxes 'wisely invested' can be the panacea.....end world poverty, enrich Africa despots, cover the globe with windmills and change the ethnic demographic of Britain into something akin to Karachi.......

"we just need another fifty years or so"

and "and lets open the public money spigot, spread the and put Britain back in the - shite."

Edited by user 02 January 2013 06:04:41(UTC)  | Reason: '''s adjustment

TheBoilingFrog
#14 Posted : 02 January 2013 10:15:09(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
"the greatest follow of the modern era".


I guess you mean folly, Richard.

Edit:
Quote:
Cabinet Memorandum of 21 June 962


Guess you mean 1961, this (page 144)

http://filestore.nationa...fs/large/cab-129-105.pdf

Sorry, not trying to be your sub editor BigGrin ...your piece (and Booker's) is fascinating. Much appreciated



Auto-correct gave me "follow".

and are you sure you mean pg 144?




Page 144 of the pdf download has "DIRECTIVE - FOR UNITED KINGDOM MINISTERS FOR THEIR
DISCUSSIONS WITH COMMONWEALTH GOVERNMENTS" from which you quote. It is dated June 21 1961
richard
#15 Posted : 02 January 2013 10:29:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post


Page 144 of the pdf download has "DIRECTIVE - FOR UNITED KINGDOM MINISTERS FOR THEIR
DISCUSSIONS WITH COMMONWEALTH GOVERNMENTS" from which you quote. It is dated June 21 1961



Ah! I was going by the folio number (top right-hand corner, stamped on the sheet). Thanks. Useful find.

Frank Davis
#16 Posted : 02 January 2013 13:29:55(UTC)
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For your interest, Richard, yesterday I ordered that book, The Great Deception, which you co-authored with Christopher Booker.
richard
#17 Posted : 02 January 2013 13:43:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Frank Davis Go to Quoted Post
For your interest, Richard, yesterday I ordered that book, The Great Deception, which you co-authored with Christopher Booker.



BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin



To judge by previous reaction, you will find it hard going, but useful. It is not the last word on the EU - that has yet to be written, but it will take you further down the path. In my seasoned view, unless you have read the Great Deception, you have not qualified to be part of the debate. But then I would say that.

TheBoilingFrog
#18 Posted : 02 January 2013 13:58:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Frank Davis Go to Quoted Post
For your interest, Richard, yesterday I ordered that book, The Great Deception, which you co-authored with Christopher Booker.



BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin



To judge by previous reaction, you will find it hard going, but useful. It is not the last word on the EU - that has yet to be written, but it will take you further down the path. In my seasoned view, unless you have read the Great Deception, you have not qualified to be part of the debate. But then I would say that.



I would disagree with the 'hard going' bit, I think you underestimate yourself here Richard (without wishing to be sycophantic). For such a complicated subject I thought it was dead easy to read - and one you could also 'dip in and out of'. In the second edition you noted that Dr Richard Vaughan described your book as "surely the best and most readable book on the EU so far written". I would concur.

Conversely the first 'anti-eu' book I ever bought was Bernard Connolly's Rotten Heart of Europe when it was first published. Fascinating in its detail but boy did it get bogged down in it. It is an essential book but not one you could casually read while sitting on the loo - so to speak.
Ant1
#19 Posted : 02 January 2013 14:00:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ant1 Go to Quoted Post
Hello Flashman,

To be fair to them, and admitted they'd apparently rather support the Tories, the daily Express has been running a leave-the-EU campaign for a while now. We buy it just for that reason!

Regards Ant


The trouble is that, even by the standards of the legacy media, the Express is a shite newspaper.

............................................................................................................................................

Hello Richard,

I agree absolutely, but then I think they all are - the BBC etc too. As I said, we buy it support them and to joke about the rotating HEADLINES on the front page - weather up or down, houses up or down, pensions up or down, some magic medical cure may possibly be on the horizon in umpty tears' time...

The Dilbert cartoon strip is usually good, though!

Regards Ant
Frank Davis
#20 Posted : 02 January 2013 14:13:21(UTC)
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I suppose that if there is a question I have, and which the book may or may not answer, it is: Why should anyone wish to engage in deception in such matters?

For it seems perfectly obvious to me that if people are to embark on a large scale political project - such as the creation of a European superstate - they must do so in perfect honesty and sincerity. Because if they engage in deception, sooner or later this will emerge, as will happen when people bring home their brand new European Superstate, and tear off the cellophane, and plug it into the power socket, only to find that it doesn't work at all, or stops working after a few minutes. They'll feel cheated, and want their money back. It's inevitable.

Deception really only makes sense if one is a con-man wishing to make a quick buck by selling shoddy goods, and escaping before the consequences catch up with one. Were Jean Monnet and Jacques Delors con-men?

Or is it that the founders of the European superstate project hoped that, once they'd duped everyone into signing up for it, there would be no way out, and all concerned would be locked in? In which case, why should they want to lock people into something which may prove (and arguably already is proving to be) a disaster for them?

Edited by user 02 January 2013 14:17:30(UTC)  | Reason: added 'it' to first line

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