logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

richard
#1 Posted : 27 December 2012 16:17:47(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,038
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Last March, I published a piece on wartime integration between Great Britain and France, on the basis of an article found in a copy of Reynolds News dated 5 May 1940.

The article referred to proposals for full-blown integration which pre-dated the last-ditch attempt by Churchill (with the aid of Jean Monnet) in June 1940, aimed at forestalling the collapse of France. However, the whole of my story was based on secondary accounts, without any primary sources.

Browsing though the National Archives, though – as one does – I have come across bundles of documents, comprising over 1,000 pages, which provide a comprehensive record of Anglo-French relations between 1939 and 1940. One of the most interesting though is this one - CAB/85/18 - relating to the "Interdepartmental Committee on Post-War Anglo-French Collaboration".

View full article here

Edited by user 28 December 2012 10:03:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

gregb
#2 Posted : 27 December 2012 18:03:48(UTC)
gregb

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 18/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 26
United States
Location: Virginia

Thanks: 13 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Full post to follow shortly, explaining this (very long .pdf file).
Looking forward to it. There are some almost unbelievable quotes in this document. 30.4.40
Proposed Act of Perpetual Association between UK and France.
"With particular reference to Customs Union" and also that "the Dominions were specifically excluded"!


Ravenscar
#3 Posted : 27 December 2012 18:40:28(UTC)
Ravenscar

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 921
Location: The North

Thanks: 113 times
Was thanked: 135 time(s) in 91 post(s)
Cripes, something interesting this way comes.
richard
#4 Posted : 27 December 2012 20:09:49(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,038
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
comet
#5 Posted : 27 December 2012 20:18:32(UTC)
comet

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 617
United Kingdom
Location: gloucestershire

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 66 time(s) in 54 post(s)
Or in short, the EU lacks a demos and can't construct one quickly and thoroughly enough for the lack to overtake it.
richard
#6 Posted : 27 December 2012 21:29:28(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,038
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Originally Posted by: comet Go to Quoted Post
Or in short, the EU lacks a demos and can't construct one quickly and thoroughly enough for the lack to overtake it.



I guess that's about it. Nothing has changed in all that time.

Dodgy Geezer
#7 Posted : 27 December 2012 21:32:55(UTC)
Dodgy Geezer

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 325
United Kingdom

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 39 time(s) in 25 post(s)
Quote:
Such words, communicated to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Lord Halifax) on 21 May 1940, set out the reasons why, more than 70 years later, the European Union must fail. It inevitably involves political unification but it can never attract the "dedication" of the people. It can never demand and nor will it ever get the unlimited sacrifice of its "citizens.




The European Union already seems to attract the 'dedication' of its 'people'. Its people are those in the Commission.

There are a lot of other humans in the European geographic area. But I am not sure that these count as 'people' to the Commission. They certainly do not seem to count as 'voting people'. A better description of them might be 'dummies', or 'slaves'.

You will recall that a state run by one 'voting' elite yet populated by many other non-voting humans has been quite a common one throughout history. Women, for instance, did not participate in government in many countries until quite recently. They just did what they were told to do, and put up with it - much as we are doing at the moment. And of course classical times have many examples of states running with free citizens and a separate slave class.

I fear that the Commission might be taking the model of Sparta rather than the theories of Locke and Rousseau as their starting point...
john in cheshire
#8 Posted : 28 December 2012 00:58:43(UTC)
john in cheshire

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 62
United Kingdom
Location: cheshire

Thanks: 85 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
The cretins, imbeciles and the truly evil will wither away and normalcy will perhaps resume. But, none of the miscreants will be brought to account, let alone punished for what they have done. I doubt they believe they have done wrong; but then most of the nazis at Nuremburg thought they had done nothing wrong. I'd be satisfied if socialism was held to account and its adherents incarcerated for a very long time. But it's not going to happen, is it? Thus, the virus will ever be with us, passed on to our children for them to have to recognise and defeat. Is that a natural cycle of life; I don't think so. What, for example, if we'd refused entry to the millibands, wouldn't we be better off without them, Marxists that they are? Until we educate our children about socialism and its consequences, we are almost certain to have to suffer into the future because of it.

Edited by user 28 December 2012 01:01:25(UTC)  | Reason: most nazis thought they had done nothing wrong

 2 users thanked john in cheshire for this useful post.
letmethink on 28/12/2012(UTC), flyinthesky on 28/12/2012(UTC)
stuart
#9 Posted : 28 December 2012 09:56:27(UTC)
stuart

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 155
United Kingdom
Location: Andover

Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 8 post(s)
You prove once again Richard why reading your work is worth a hundred days at least of Daily Telegraphs. We all know what you have written to be true. Even Nigel Farage for all his faults knows this to be true.
richard
#10 Posted : 28 December 2012 10:04:21(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,038
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Originally Posted by: stuart Go to Quoted Post
You prove once again Richard why reading your work is worth a hundred days at least of Daily Telegraphs. We all know what you have written to be true. Even Nigel Farage for all his faults knows this to be true.



BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

stuart
#11 Posted : 28 December 2012 10:20:28(UTC)
stuart

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 155
United Kingdom
Location: Andover

Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 8 post(s)
If a state has to have the loyalty of the people who dwell within, surely it belongs to the people? It is their state and the ultimate authority (government) is theirs also. So to change the boundaries or amalgamate governance with other People's is one of the highest political crimes any government can perpetrate and unless given 100% legitimacy from the People, is an act of utter tyranny and declaration of the government acting illegitimately (ultra vires). Treason is the highest crime against the state (the People). Treason has been committed.

Edited by user 28 December 2012 10:22:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

flyinthesky
#12 Posted : 28 December 2012 12:19:19(UTC)
flyinthesky

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 101
United Kingdom
Location: Lancashire

Thanks: 64 times
Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)
Originally Posted by: john in cheshire Go to Quoted Post
The cretins, imbeciles and the truly evil will wither away and normalcy will perhaps resume. But, none of the miscreants will be brought to account, let alone punished for what they have done. I doubt they believe they have done wrong; but then most of the nazis at Nuremburg thought they had done nothing wrong. I'd be satisfied if socialism was held to account and its adherents incarcerated for a very long time. But it's not going to happen, is it? Thus, the virus will ever be with us, passed on to our children for them to have to recognise and defeat. Is that a natural cycle of life; I don't think so. What, for example, if we'd refused entry to the millibands, wouldn't we be better off without them, Marxists that they are? Until we educate our children about socialism and its consequences, we are almost certain to have to suffer into the future because of it.


In the main "we" don't educate our children "they" do, It's easy to indoctrinate the emotive driven young with the touchy feely idea of socialism and equality for all.

John Archer
#13 Posted : 29 December 2012 02:31:23(UTC)
John Archer

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Albion

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 51 post(s)
richard wrote:
Thus, the idea that the EU can replace the sovereign state is indeed a "master fallacy of political thought" and those who believe it has a stable future are deluded. The European Union must fail – because of its very nature. The sovereign state is the only political entity which can provide stability.

Fancy that!

But maintaining precisely that same line of thought, and sharpening it up a little into a real acid test, try this:

"The idea that a demos diluted by unwanted, indeed hated, and hideously incongruous alien turd-world immigrunt scum can replace the millennia-settled demos of this sovereign nation state is indeed a "master fallacy of political thought" and those who believe it has a stable future are deluded. This monster must fail – because of its very nature. The sovereign demos is the only political entity which can provide stability."

This gives far more than sufficient reason to make 'racism' wholly respectable. Indeed it makes it an existential necessity, and those against it, enemies of the sovereign nation.

Now, is there anyone here who cares to argue otherwise? If so, I'd like to hear from him.

But please note that gainsaying on its own is no argument.

By the way, if you feel outraged by that view, can you explain where your outrage stands in relation to the outrage of those who agree with it?



Ha. I thought so.
John Archer
#14 Posted : 29 December 2012 03:47:25(UTC)
John Archer

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Albion

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 51 post(s)
john in cheshire wrote:
The cretins, imbeciles and the truly evil will wither away and normalcy will perhaps resume. But, none of the miscreants will be brought to account, let alone punished for what they have done. I doubt they believe they have done wrong; but then most of the nazis at Nuremburg thought they had done nothing wrong. I'd be satisfied if socialism was held to account and its adherents incarcerated for a very long time. But it's not going to happen, is it? Thus, the virus will ever be with us, passed on to our children for them to have to recognise and defeat. Is that a natural cycle of life; I don't think so. What, for example, if we'd refused entry to the millibands, wouldn't we be better off without them, Marxists that they are? Until we educate our children about socialism and its consequences, we are almost certain to have to suffer into the future because of it.
Yes. Well put.

However, whatever else they are, the millibands should have been excluded simply because they are not us. People who are not us will not look after our interests but their own and will trample on ours at the drop of a hat. Given what they're up to I'd have no trouble trampling on theirs. None at all.

john in cheshire wrote:
I'd be satisfied if socialism [and all the rest of it] was held to account and its adherents incarcerated for a very long time.
I could live with that but I wouldn't be satisfied. I want them to suffer long excruciating pain and torment, and then be brutally killed for the crimes they have committed.

Incidentally, all commies should be given the Nuremburg treatment. Hitler may have been looking for a little local lebensraum, for example, but that bastard Stalin—and his cousins everywhere—had their eyes on the whole fucking world long before and ever since. As for the killing and general misery, well Stalin was streets ahead. Just like pisslam. Same solution there too. A pressing one.
John Archer
#15 Posted : 29 December 2012 03:51:16(UTC)
John Archer

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Albion

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 51 post(s)
stuart wrote:
If a state has to have the loyalty of the people who dwell within, surely it belongs to the people? It is their state and the ultimate authority (government) is theirs also. So to change the boundaries or amalgamate governance with other People's is one of the highest political crimes any government can perpetrate and unless given 100% legitimacy from the People, is an act of utter tyranny and declaration of the government acting illegitimately (ultra vires). Treason is the highest crime against the state (the People). Treason has been committed.

Exactly. And note that immigration of any kind is a change to the People. To allow—let alone encourage—unwanted immigration is therefore also "one of the highest political crimes any government can perpetrate and unless given 100% legitimacy from the People, is an act of utter tyranny and declaration of the government acting illegitimately (ultra vires)."

Of course, seeing as it always was deeply unwanted immigration, and always was well known to be deeply unwanted, the crime is of the very highest. No mercy should be shown to the perpetraitors and those who support them.
stuart
#16 Posted : 29 December 2012 12:56:11(UTC)
stuart

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 155
United Kingdom
Location: Andover

Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Originally Posted by: John Archer Go to Quoted Post

Exactly. And note that immigration of any kind is a change to the People. To allow—let alone encourage—unwanted immigration is therefore also "one of the highest political crimes any government can perpetrate and unless given 100% legitimacy from the People, is an act of utter tyranny and declaration of the government acting illegitimately (ultra vires)."

Of course, seeing as it always was deeply unwanted immigration, and always was well known to be deeply unwanted, the crime is of the very highest. No mercy should be shown to the perpetraitors and those who support them.


You seem to be a little obsessed with the immigration angle John, but then Locke wrote hundreds of years ago that a society is mostly broken down by a foreign force. Naturally a foreign force does not need to be wielding guns or swords. Force of numbers is just as powerful.

John Archer
#17 Posted : 30 December 2012 12:44:35(UTC)
John Archer

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Albion

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 51 post(s)
Yeah, but Locke was a real top-notch professional obsessive. With me it's just a pastime.
vincent
#18 Posted : 31 December 2012 15:01:54(UTC)
vincent

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 922
United Kingdom
Location: Sunderland

Thanks: 76 times
Was thanked: 31 time(s) in 28 post(s)
Quote:
Lincoln called this factor "dedication" and it is this readiness of the more public-spirited citizens to obey a claim to unlimited self-sacrifice, and also to make less public-spirited citizens also obey it, that is the root of sovereignty, Curtis added. It enables one authority in the state to override all other authorities in the last resort. It enables that authority to make decisions, and make them in time


What we have here is control over tax and spend,i.e the right to take monies from one set of citizens and give it to others.The EU currently does not have those capabilities though it wishes to aquire them via the new Fiscal Pact.The end game is in clear sight.

Edited by user 31 December 2012 15:03:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.6.1 | YAF © 2003-2013, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.251 seconds.