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richard
#1 Posted : 23 December 2012 22:55:29(UTC)
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You can tell how potentially damaging Norway's status is to the europhile cause by the amount of attention being paid to it. If it wasn't quite so dangerous, they wouldn't all be harping on about it, from Business for New Europe, to Barroso, Open Europe, Sir Stephen Wall, Cameron and The Observer.

And now, the very latest in this long line of naysayers is no less than Norwegian Foreign Minister Espen Eide, who is urging the UK to assess the advantages of staying in the European Union, rather than consider leaving.

Although, as we know, Norway is not in the EU but has "access" to the single market, Eide says Oslo has "limited scope for influence", telling BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend that, "We are not at the table when decisions are made".

View full article here

and ...

Following on from the earlier piece where Norwegian Foreign Minister Espen Eide tells us that membership of the EEA is "regulation without representation", further evidence comes via a reader of the full extent of this lying propaganda in the from of the EFTA website.

This is, of course, the organisation to which Norway belongs and through which it becomes a member of the EEA and thus participates in the Single Market (or "internal market" as they prefer to call it). And, on the page to which we link, we see reference to "EEA EFTA Comments", followed by this text:
One of the ways in which the EEA EFTA States participate in shaping EC legislation, i.e. when the Commission is drawing up legislative proposals, is by submitting comments on important policy issues. The comments are elaborated by working groups, cleared by the relevant subcommittees, endorsed by the Standing Committee and officially noted by the Joint Committee after they have been sent to the relevant services in the Commission and the European Parliament.

View full article here

Edited by user 24 December 2012 12:52:12(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

In2minds
#2 Posted : 23 December 2012 23:35:43(UTC)
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In a previous post there was a reference to 'the switch'. There's a point up to which the coalition can do things wrong but recover in time for the election, but not after. It seems to me that a large number of people seem to think that as far as the UK and the EU are concerned the switch point for in or out is getting closer, or even here now.

I think all this 'comment' we had the USA chip in with its wisdom too, is tending to be counter-productive. I say it's helping the 'outers'. Why don't those who would want us to stay in the EU show a little more confidence and shut up? Just goes to show how little they know!
Ravenscar
#3 Posted : 24 December 2012 00:00:42(UTC)
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Methinks, that they [EUphiliacs] doth protesteth overly much.

I can think of a million and one reasons to leave the Brussels empire of skanks, I am hard pressed [genuinely] to think of one solid excuse for tarrying any longer.


If it was such a good deal and that; Britain remaining in the EU was a great boon for the nation - why the need for all the cant and bluster?

I'll tell yer, if Britain left the EU, it would be something akin to the keystone being taken out of the arch.


And with Kathryn Cooper, averring in the Sunday Times - the Greek 'problem' is dissipating.............everything is hunky-dory in EU-shire - try telling that to the families scavenging for food in the trash can of Athens - if we stay - that is around the corner for us......................think on.

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flyinthesky on 24/12/2012(UTC)
Nottoobrite
#4 Posted : 24 December 2012 10:25:16(UTC)
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But, when talking about Norway and the Swiss does not financial stability enter into the equation ?
D W Buxton
#5 Posted : 24 December 2012 11:47:24(UTC)
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Reading your posts on this, it would seem that they have more influence than we do, as I recall the EU acts on our behalf not for our interest. I back your posts against the known EU untruths.
O/T, May I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas and a Happy, Prosperous and Healthy New Year.

Sorry all, called away for food, so stealth edit in order. My Christmas message above is for all writers, moderators and posters on this excellent site. Thanks for all the information and keep up the good work.

Edited by user 24 December 2012 12:18:08(UTC)  | Reason: missing para.

flyinthesky
#6 Posted : 24 December 2012 11:50:12(UTC)
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My kneejerk take is, yet another trougher on a promise. Have these people got any shame at all.
flyinthesky
#7 Posted : 24 December 2012 12:00:09(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Nottoobrite Go to Quoted Post


But, when talking about Norway and the Swiss does not financial stability enter into the equation ?


Indeed it does, by remaining outside they've managed to retain it.
Robertm
#8 Posted : 24 December 2012 12:04:03(UTC)
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If the EU is so good for Britain could the minister explain why Norway is not a member?

A couple of good posts on Mary Ellen's blog in the Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/blogs/index.html

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.
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flyinthesky on 24/12/2012(UTC)
flyinthesky
#9 Posted : 24 December 2012 13:49:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Robertm Go to Quoted Post
If the EU is so good for Britain could the minister explain why Norway is not a member?

A couple of good posts on Mary Ellen's blog in the Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/blogs/index.html

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.


His countrymen have been asked, considered the implications, and declined. We haven't been asked, the implications concealed and just told.

Ravenscar
#10 Posted : 24 December 2012 13:53:28(UTC)
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I keep forgetting about Mary's blog so thanks Robertm - Putin is an ageing with bite less bad than his smile shark. the reality of the US shale gas boom makes him increasingly - a toothless marauder.


I don't much care about Eide and even less for his opinions [are they his own words even?].

There are so many stuffed shirts in Europe these days, here in Britain we give them public sector jobs and sections of public services to 'fix' and so it seems to be the case in Norsk.

We get the same rot, with anything pertaining to global warming - lie upon lie and topped off with more lies - the meme is so crocked that they cannot remember what the argument is all about.

An independent Britain, would be a powerful force for good in the world, without being hamstrung and told what to say by the Yanks and the EU. Out of the EU, an immediate home fillip and spend the money we normally throw at the EU on a small scale rearmament [we ain't China] we would need to rebuild some of our wasted armed capacity and away from the clutches of Brussels we'd be economically far less dependent on German manufacturing.

God help us, we would maybe begin to start making things again.

A happy new year to; Freedom, real democracy - Referism and an end to the HRA! Plus, a merry xmas to all who make this site the one to read and thanks to Dr. N and his long suffering lady wife [the real star and power behind the throneLaugh ].
bill poster
#11 Posted : 24 December 2012 15:31:33(UTC)
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This sort of specific rebuttal (perhaps in an abridged form) is exactly what we will need when the referendum comes. Is there any centralised collection, along the lines of the myths section on the main site?

I worry that those few outters who are permitted on the airwaves will be unarmed.
Nottoobrite
#12 Posted : 24 December 2012 16:50:14(UTC)
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Richard,
you are being to hard on Mr. Espen Eide, politicians the world over do not differ from there British colleagues, they, have been "educated " and know more than the great unwashed, if you wait a moment the British F.O. will issue a statement confirming his remarks.
Flashman
#13 Posted : 24 December 2012 16:58:55(UTC)
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Simple clear explanantion. Thanks Richard. One does wonder UKIP do not have this at their fingertips ah well Unsure

A Happy Christmas to one and all !



Anoneumouse
#14 Posted : 24 December 2012 18:06:26(UTC)
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Espen Eide the 21st century Quisling
mmatis
#15 Posted : 24 December 2012 18:17:06(UTC)
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I have no doubt that the BBC "reporting" is simply because they do not realize the "news" they broadcast is false. No agenda on their part. Nothing to see here, folks! Move along now...
richard
#16 Posted : 24 December 2012 18:56:00(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mmatis Go to Quoted Post
I have no doubt that the BBC "reporting" is simply because they do not realize the "news" they broadcast is false. No agenda on their part. Nothing to see here, folks! Move along now...




If it isn't deliberate, it's incompetence on a grand scale.

Ravenscar
#17 Posted : 24 December 2012 19:58:57(UTC)
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-49 deg' C in province of China and -42 reported in Xingjiang province, Novosibirsk averaging [24/7] last week at -35 deg C, that's a whole lot of global warming, yessiree.
We must thank our lucky stars, that, the wind is in the west, warm 'n' wet is better than ice and snow. I give thanks to CH, in our first house didn't have CH and my mother and father came from homes with open coal fires in the upstairs bedrooms.

Soon, all things going to plan and with the world turning towards much harder winters. Britain energy generation is going into reverse 'green mode'. It's all so unnecessary but the EU dictates and we do follow, remember every time you switch on a gloomy light bulb or sit in a pub with miserable and cold electric light from CFls - this is the new way forwards.

Thank God it ain't cold, cold and no heating is the way Brussels wants it.

Just one more among hundreds of thousands.. a [vital for our health] reason, that the country must expedite its exit from the slave empire:

out and out NOW.

Update: Moscow at -25 deg'C Man made warming at its height.

Edited by user 26 December 2012 14:49:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

comet
#18 Posted : 24 December 2012 21:29:34(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mmatis Go to Quoted Post
I have no doubt that the BBC "reporting" is simply because they do not realize the "news" they broadcast is false. No agenda on their part. Nothing to see here, folks! Move along now...




If it isn't deliberate, it's incompetence on a grand scale.



Self imposed blinkers. it's a good line and supports a cause and so there's no reason to question it. Indeed, questioning it might cause the faith to falter or lead to having to present a nuanced argument, quite unsuited to propaganda.

it also happens the other way round with this 16 years without the accounts being signed off line, which is true to an extent.

It's important to have detailed refutations to the fax democracy claptrap, but there's also another line.

We could be reduced to the status of Norway which only has a fax democracy, it has to implement EU directives and has no say in their making.

So what? How is that different to what we have now where we take and embellish EU directives enthusiastically and there's no evidence that having a seat at the top table makes the slightest difference? For instance, we still went along with the illegal bail outs.

If it's such a terrible thing, how come Norwegians still don't want to be a part of the EU and laugh at the fax democracy nonsense?
Ravenscar
#19 Posted : 25 December 2012 00:18:51(UTC)
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Quote:
We could be reduced to the status of Norway which only has a fax democracy, it has to implement EU directives and has no say in their making.

So what? How is that different to what we have now where we take and embellish EU directives enthusiastically and there's no evidence that having a seat at the top table makes the slightest difference? For instance, we still went along with the illegal bail outs.

If it's such a terrible thing, how come Norwegians still don't want to be a part of the EU and laugh at the fax democracy nonsense?


Infinitely superior in every way to my mind - yep Norway's way is the [interim until we sever all links 'cept trade] way.
gareth
#20 Posted : 25 December 2012 11:27:59(UTC)
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I found this via the Europa.eu website.

A copy of a press release in English from the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. (pdf)

The original or the Norwegian government website is here: Norway and the EEA Agreement (if it appears in Norwegian click 'English' at the top right of the page.)

A quote:
Quote:
Norway and the EU share basic attitudes and values. Norway's cooperation with the EU is important for Norwegian companies, for value creation and for Norwegian society in general. The Government intends to manage Norway's current agreements with the EU well, and will make active use of the opportunities provided by these agreements to promote Norway's interests.

...

In the white paper, the Government attaches importance to making full use of the opportunities open to Norway under the EEA agreement. We need to take a proactive approach and set clear priorities and we will actively promote Nowegian interests. We will also make active use of the opportunities available to us in implementing the legislation. In cases where the development of the legislation is not compatible with Norwegian interests, the Government will use the opportunities provided by the agreement to safeguard Norway's interests.

By Norwegian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Espen Bart Eide.

The white paper mentioned is here: EEA and Norway Grants Solidarity and cooperation in Europe. I haven't read it myself.

EDIT:

Who are people like Eide lying to: Us, each other, themselves? Everyone? Here is a Norwegian government statement that says Norway has avenues of influence and isn't afraid to use them. Is this for Norwegian consumption to fool the public while the Ministers huddle around the fax machine?

EDIT AGAIN: The white paper above isn't the right one. Sorry.

EDIT AGAIN AGAIN: I've started reading another Norwegian government report which was looking at how other countries view the EEA agreement and it included this passage:
Quote:
In the United Kingdom the EEA Agreement has also attracted a certain degree of attention at times. Interest has been greatest among EU sceptics in the right wing of the Conservative Party, who regard the Agreement as an attractive alternative to EU membership. However, the EEA has not been subjected to a systematic analysis, and it is unclear whether it is seen as a realistic alternative. In the autumn of 2011 a proposal was put forward to hold a referendum on whether the UK should remain in the EU or seek another form of association, but Norway and the EEA were barely mentioned in the debate. In a foreign policy speech made in the autumn of 2011, Prime Minister David Cameron said that "leaving the EU is not in our national interest", adding that "outside, we would end up like Norway, subject to every rule for the single market made in Brussels but unable to shape those rules".17 In Scotland the EEA Agreement has also been discussed in connection withthe debate on Scottish independence, but such an alternative has never been subjected to a more detailed examination.


Outside and Inside, Norway’s agreements with the European Union

From the report I get the impression that the only people comfortable with the EEA agreement are the Norwegian public. It prevents their Government from jumping into the EU as a full member. The EU would like nations either to be members of the EU or not. Nations that would like to join the EU would like to join the EU and aren't looking for a halfway house.

Edited by user 25 December 2012 13:39:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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