This is a huge subject and it will jostle with others to get the attention it deserves. As implied the bandwagon was so tempting and it's now overcrowded and coming to a stop.




As friend of mine said, and continuing with the 'tee-hee' approach, the police start out by stitching up Irishmen so it was only a matter of time before they got to MPs.

Edited by user 19 December 2012 15:13:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Come on telling lies to get a cough is one thing but never to a court. I still don't believe they stitched up Irishmen.

Exactly

Well pipesmoker I don't believe Irishmen stitch themselves up!

And Niall Warry, I think you are having a larff, yes? The idea that a superfluous 'officer class' from the military top brass sorts out the police is silly. In fact the military make similar mistakes to the police. I suggest you read - 'Ministry of Defeat' by R North to learn what they can do when they try.

The public services, uniformed or not, need more public oversight an elite force with magical powers does not come into it. After all, who pays them?

I have read Ministry of Defeat and as an ex military man ( 12 years regular and 12 territorial service) I can assure you that I am extremely critical of many of our top brass and brought 5 extra copies which I distributed to current senior soldiers with whom I had served asking them to read it and pass it on.

However that doesn't alter the fact the police are poorly led or that they could learn something from an 'officer class'. Yes our generals have made tactical and strategic mistakes but the manmanagement in our Armed Forces is generally far better than in the police.

Edited by user 19 December 2012 22:05:25(UTC)  | Reason: correct spelling

Surely in the spirit of Harrogate, the answer for the Police should lie in the hands of the people. The Police, in theory, police by consent...something that has long been lacking. We need to take this back...I certainly don't want a paramilitary type police force under a watchful eye of any 'military top brass'.

Thank you for this important post, Dr. N. I also appreciate Permex's perception: "Whether he deserved it or not, I think Mitchell 'fell down the stairs' " The question "Did he fall, or was he pushed?" may not finally enjoy the longevity it has in the case of Amy Robsart. However, you've both led me to reflect on the joys of euroism --- including the principle of "Guilty Until Proved Innocent." Hope you won't mind my sharing....

Why, they even suffer our little children under the same rule! 'Twas not ever thus. Me myself? For most of my first decade, I was not unusual in knowing not of the 's** word' or associated adult practices: but now they force that knowledge on our least sullied flesh. They set the children up for a future of 'bread and circuses,' and they do it in the name of education. Education: to learn and what to learn. It used to be about development of intelligence; we learned to think by application of literacy and numeracy -- so as to equip our generations with the skills and knowledge for maintaining civilisation.

Under franco-german euroism? The innocent (bullied, all unknowing) learn that civilisation involves "respect for law." In this regard, whatever evil entity establishes the rules, governors enforce "equality" and "justice;" under those rules, lower orders serve a militarised, politicised, authoritarian "officer" class. Intrinsically, those who seek deeper truth, or practice greater freedom, threaten the Whip-Wielders. Thus -- where the underlying philosophies of this country once encouraged protection and nurture of original, general honest thought -- now such intelligence spells danger for the dominion. Independent minds must therefore be punished under campaigns of public vilification, in staged dramas. The ignorant then waste their powers in playing judge/jury/executioner about the entertainment set before the audience. Whatever unpleasantness the pits unleash upon the players... let that be in postmodern terms: "Venting."

Meanwhile, what of Freedom Fighters? Such daring "insubordinators" languish in prison, and Lord Leveson's media are among the dumbed down who must not enquire into how and why. We masses might begin to resent the reality that their incarceration is predicated on the lies of trumped up charges. Some of us might remember our once-cherished precept, "Innocent Until Proved Guilty"; in that case, we might even make the connection that the invaders deem men like Tommy Robinson and Stephen Lennon "Guilty Until Proved Innocent."


Oh it's radical social "change" all right. euroists have transfected the very root of our native 'lora' and flora, 'fawna' and fauna.
But diagnosis and publication of the corruption could serve our native enterprise; then, perhaps Mitchell will be among the first of the bodies to pile up. Then the stage will be set for Fortinbras to enter ... 'strong in arms.'

Edited by user 19 December 2012 20:34:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

One question that will need to be dealt with, however reluctant the establishment is about the police’s supposed political neutrality being questioned, is were any of the police involved ever members of a political party and if so which.
It looks like the key piece of evidence is the time shown in the recording and the words recorded in the police logs.
Mitchell simply could not have spoken that amount of words in that amount of time.
This is now about motive, which makes it much more serious than an allegation that a senior politician was a foul mouthed rude oaf.Afterall Mo Mowlam was notorious for not being able to string a sentence together in private without obscenities, which caused problems in Northern Ireland dealing with all those Reverends.

Yes I agree that the people need to be able to exert direct influence and pressure on the Police but that doesn't get away from the fact the Police are poorly led and this issue needs to be addressed.

The thing about the militiary, and I don't think many would disagree, is that the 'troops' are disciplined and well led. Yes sadly some Top Brass are donkeys but by no means all of them.

The Police force in this country needs to become better led.

Having been there for almost thirty years I agree with your view with a few exceptions but the exceptions never reach the top.

In 1959 when I joined the Chief Constable of Staffordshire County Police was Colonel G.W.R Hearne. The nick I worked at was run by an Inspector and two sergeants, often without any supervision a constable in charge but we were disciplined and did the job. It wasn't perfect but certainly a lot better than present.

BTW I just missed national service call up and was in the first intake not subject to military discipline until I joined.

Edited by user 20 December 2012 06:21:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified