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richard
#1 Posted : 17 December 2012 15:49:50(UTC)
Richard

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I don't recall whose bright idea it was originally to have elected police commissioners but, in largely ignoring the elections, the general public displayed a greater degree of judgement than the progenitor(s) of the idea.

Needless to say, despite the near-universal lack of enthusiasm for this additional and useless layer of bureaucracy, we are having to pay the bill – and in more ways than one. Firstly, there is the growing scandal of the deputies, with police commissioners appointing friends, relatives and political associates to posts worth up to £68,000 a year, with charges of "cronyism" abounding.

Such scandals are being picked up by local newspapers, giving them a whole new vein to mine, one of the latest coming from the Shropshire Star, where former Staffordshire policeman Barrie Sheldon has been appointed by Bill Longmore to the role after working with him during his campaign to become West Mercia's first police and crime commissioner.

View full article here

Ravenscar
#2 Posted : 17 December 2012 16:48:17(UTC)
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Richard - I think you did say [many moons ago] that it was only another and very unnecessary layer of useless bureaucracy.


You were quite correct in making that prophetic statement.


And the gravy train speeds on and on.
thespecialone
#3 Posted : 17 December 2012 17:16:40(UTC)
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The only people who think it is a good idea are the PCC themselves; those who stand to gain by being given jobs by their mates who are PCCs and the elite in Westminster. What a bunch of tossers.

ALeatherland
#4 Posted : 17 December 2012 18:48:58(UTC)
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And so we have another piece of political theatre masquerading as democracy. The clue to the falsehoods about this role can be found in the words of serving police officers

As many serving officers will tell you, the issue with crime (more often than not) has little to do with police making arrests. The issue is more that the CPS will not proceed with many cases as presented to them. As I've heard from my police officer friends, they have lost count the amount of times that they have a suspect with what looks likes an open and shut case yet the CPS will not touch it. I have heard police refer to them either as Couldn't Prosecute Satan or the Criminal Protection Service, such is their frustration.

Yet we all jump in with the notion that PCCs were going to be some kind of robocop type role to clean up our streets.

What is often forgotten that before New labour came to power, one of their ilk made a big noise on crime, telling us we would all know who our district crown prosecutor was once in power. Of course there's no suprise that this promise disappeared because I suspect that would have been a little too close to accountability.

Now elected crown prosecutors, that might have been something worth having a vote on.
Brian
#5 Posted : 17 December 2012 18:51:08(UTC)
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It's interesting to recall what Chris Grayling, who promoted the idea of Police Commissioners said three years ago. Blushing

btw it was Policy Exchange which first proposed Police & Crime Commissioners back in 2003 in this paper.

Edited by user 17 December 2012 19:06:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Nothing is impossible so long as everybody does exactly what I tell them.
flyinthesky
#6 Posted : 17 December 2012 19:21:55(UTC)
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I have always said that as police commisioners must act within the constaints of national policy, making the reality totally devoid of any autonomy or policy infuence. It's just another attempt to foster the illusion of democracy.

Edited by user 17 December 2012 19:23:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Shakassoc
#7 Posted : 17 December 2012 21:09:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
I don't recall whose bright idea it was originally to have elected police commissioners but, in largely ignoring the elections, the general public displayed a greater degree of judgement than the progenitor(s) of the idea.

View full article here



I think you will find it was Hannan and Carswell in their book 'The Plan', though they called them 'Sheriffs'.
bill poster
#8 Posted : 17 December 2012 21:34:12(UTC)
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And if I resist forcefully enough to prevent my imprisonment for not paying this minor tax , I will be killed. This is always the brutal bottom line when dealing with the state, a fact which is all too often suppressed. Everyone has to take the same medicine, and one size fits all. Otherwise, how would we expropriate anything from anyone?

Thinking about it, I wonder if we could get legislation passed that required all future bills to end with the true statement: "and if a citizen resists, he will be imprisoned. If he resists with sufficient force to prevent imprisonment, he will be killed". That might slow the passage of the more useless ideas somewhat. Or maybe not. Either way, call it what it is.
richard
#9 Posted : 17 December 2012 22:05:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Shakassoc Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
I don't recall whose bright idea it was originally to have elected police commissioners but, in largely ignoring the elections, the general public displayed a greater degree of judgement than the progenitor(s) of the idea.

View full article here



I think you will find it was Hannan and Carswell in their book 'The Plan', though they called them 'Sheriffs'.



Must be these ... but the idea seems to stem from Nick Herbert ... April 2007 ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6520855.stm

the Hannan/Carswell "plan" was a year later.

Edited by user 17 December 2012 22:17:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

mmatis
#10 Posted : 17 December 2012 22:50:43(UTC)
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You say:
Quote:
"...if the man has been cheating on his expenses, this is a criminal offence."


But if the man who has been cheating is a "Law Enforcement" officer, then the cheating cannot have been illegal! Just as over here in West Pondia, the standard is "If the President does it, it's not illegal." Do you not realize that by now?
In2minds
#11 Posted : 17 December 2012 23:52:53(UTC)
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This, I think, is wonderful news. Some very grubby people who want to 'serve' the public, and I don't mean the MPs, will now have the light shine upon them.
pipesmoker
#12 Posted : 18 December 2012 07:06:36(UTC)
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You are all being very unfair ;-) Dr Frosch leaves me lost for words!
Brian
#13 Posted : 18 December 2012 10:15:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shakassoc Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
I don't recall whose bright idea it was originally to have elected police commissioners but, in largely ignoring the elections, the general public displayed a greater degree of judgement than the progenitor(s) of the idea.

View full article here



I think you will find it was Hannan and Carswell in their book 'The Plan', though they called them 'Sheriffs'.



Must be these ... but the idea seems to stem from Nick Herbert ... April 2007 ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6520855.stm

the Hannan/Carswell "plan" was a year later.


Or it was Policy Exchange which first proposed Police & Crime Commissioners back in 2003 in this paper entitled Going Local: Who's going to run Britain's Police?.
Nothing is impossible so long as everybody does exactly what I tell them.
Shakassoc
#14 Posted : 18 December 2012 18:05:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shakassoc Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
I don't recall whose bright idea it was originally to have elected police commissioners but, in largely ignoring the elections, the general public displayed a greater degree of judgement than the progenitor(s) of the idea.

View full article here



I think you will find it was Hannan and Carswell in their book 'The Plan', though they called them 'Sheriffs'.



Must be these ... but the idea seems to stem from Nick Herbert ... April 2007 ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6520855.stm

the Hannan/Carswell "plan" was a year later.


I obviously need to brush up on my political archaeology skills.
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