logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
richard
#1 Posted : 16 December 2012 21:59:27(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,036
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
A serious piece from Booker on shale gas brings forward the usual crop of comments, but mostly they miss the most significant point. This is how, from next April, the Government will be imposing its swingeing new "carbon tax" on every ton of CO2 emitted by producing electricity from fossil fuels, rapidly rising from £16 a ton to £70 by 2030.

In all the media's obsession with how fast our energy bills are rising, this is scarcely ever mentioned, says Booker – and it barely registers with his own readers either. But this tax alone will add billions a year to our bills. Within 17 years, it will be well on the way to doubling them.

The wickedness of this is that it will apply just as much to electricity from shale gas as it will to that produced by the coal-fired power stations, currently producing nearly half our electricity, which the Government wants to drive out of business as soon as possible.

View full article here

moonrakin
#2 Posted : 16 December 2012 22:29:52(UTC)
moonrakin

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 60
United Kingdom
Location: Wiltshire

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Shock! *smell a rat obviously* but Roger Harrabin does a puff piece on fracking with a seemingly positive message ?

Colour me surprised..... but extremely wary.

It still seems that the BBC has problems with the technical / engineering details.

At least he didn't say "the thingy"
richard
#3 Posted : 16 December 2012 22:35:35(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,036
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Originally Posted by: moonrakin Go to Quoted Post
Shock! *smell a rat obviously* but Roger Harrabin does a puff piece on fracking with a seemingly positive message ?

Colour me surprised..... but extremely wary.

It still seems that the BBC has problems with the technical / engineering details.

At least he didn't say "the thingy"



And he hasn't caught up with multi-well pad drilling. I do love it when they are so far behind the curve!

moonrakin
#4 Posted : 16 December 2012 22:53:20(UTC)
moonrakin

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 60
United Kingdom
Location: Wiltshire

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: moonrakin Go to Quoted Post
Shock! *smell a rat obviously* but Roger Harrabin does a puff piece on fracking with a seemingly positive message ?

Colour me surprised..... but extremely wary.

It still seems that the BBC has problems with the technical / engineering details.

At least he didn't say "the thingy"



And he hasn't caught up with multi-well pad drilling. I do love it when they are so far behind the curve!



I'd heard about MWPD but not seen it in action - relating to oil recovery offshore - as it means that less "topside" infrastructure is required but the caveats are that if something screws up at the "top of the tree" it's an almighty PITA to recover... one other upside I suspect is that the extraction plan can be tailored to a hybrid MWPD / frack strategy which maximises extraction. But it is all *highly* geology dependent.

But, weasel that we know RH to be - he gave a performance. I do wonder if there's any interesting asides in the unedited rushes.
richard
#5 Posted : 16 December 2012 23:16:11(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,036
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Originally Posted by: moonrakin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: moonrakin Go to Quoted Post
Shock! *smell a rat obviously* but Roger Harrabin does a puff piece on fracking with a seemingly positive message ?

Colour me surprised..... but extremely wary.

It still seems that the BBC has problems with the technical / engineering details.

At least he didn't say "the thingy"



And he hasn't caught up with multi-well pad drilling. I do love it when they are so far behind the curve!



I'd heard about MWPD but not seen it in action - relating to oil recovery offshore - as it means that less "topside" infrastructure is required but the caveats are that if something screws up at the "top of the tree" it's an almighty PITA to recover... one other upside I suspect is that the extraction plan can be tailored to a hybrid MWPD / frack strategy which maximises extraction. But it is all *highly* geology dependent.

But, weasel that we know RH to be - he gave a performance. I do wonder if there's any interesting asides in the unedited rushes.



There is a good summary of pros and cons here ...

http://gekengineering.co...hale_Gas_Developmen.pdf
rhaan
#6 Posted : 16 December 2012 23:59:40(UTC)
rhaan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 194
Germany
Location: Xanten

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 19 time(s) in 14 post(s)
"the Green Agenda looks less and less credible by the day" Especially since the UN IPCC AR5 report has been leaked with some truly game changing information: A. it's the sun stupid and more importantly the recognition that the climate models don't match the reality of the day putting a bomg under the AGW mantra, see http://wattsupwiththat.c...enhanced-solar-forcing/

Carbon taxes are a killer that will keep us in a permanent state of crises. People will wake up when they have to pay the bills.

2012 by the way has been a stellar year for oil and gas exploiration with huge new finds all over the place. Peak oil is not a problem for this century and it probably never will be. http://www.zerohedge.com...op-5-oil-gas-plays-2012

So I predict "TOTAL GREEN FAILLURE"
Ravenscar
#7 Posted : 17 December 2012 00:39:13(UTC)
Ravenscar

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 921
Location: The North

Thanks: 113 times
Was thanked: 135 time(s) in 91 post(s)
I read a piece on 'Octopus' the other day and thought - WOW, it will be the end the demonisation cult formed of greens/bbc/MSM anti-fracking and attacking the shale gas industry per se.

Truly, if you can get to invest in shale gas - do it. Cos, in the Sunday Times 16.12.12 - a story in the business pages titled:

"Exxon eyes stake in UK shale gas"


and goes on to say,
Quote:
American oil giant leads chase for British fracking bonanza after driilling ban is lifted
.



The damn is fracking.................. oops.
Tankus
#8 Posted : 17 December 2012 00:47:28(UTC)
Tankus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 20
United Kingdom
Location: The land of my fathers

If it is all so green and risk free...... Why does the fracking industry feel the need to take us legislation back to the Victorian era with the haliburton loophole'?

Which legally exempt 's the industry from fairly basic environmental impact protection

Safe drinking water act
Clean water act
Superfund law
National environmental policy act
Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act
Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
Toxic Release Inventory under the freedom of information act

The frackers are all exempt from the above

Why do you think they felt the need for this ?

Not even the nuclear industry had these exemptions
Tankus
#9 Posted : 17 December 2012 01:25:16(UTC)
Tankus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 20
United Kingdom
Location: The land of my fathers

Also seems a bit strange that multiple well head and lateral drilling is being presented as new technology, by the industry when its been used for decades in the North Sea and elsewhere for main extraction as well as tertiary.
Julian Williams
#10 Posted : 17 December 2012 01:30:48(UTC)
Julian Williams

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 133
United Kingdom
Location: Pembrokeshire

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
The things one learns on this blog!
moonrakin
#11 Posted : 17 December 2012 01:38:49(UTC)
moonrakin

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 60
United Kingdom
Location: Wiltshire

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Tankus Go to Quoted Post
If it is all so green and risk free...... Why does the fracking industry feel the need to take us legislation back to the Victorian era with the haliburton loophole'?

Which legally exempt 's the industry from fairly basic environmental impact protection

Safe drinking water act
Clean water act
Superfund law
National environmental policy act
Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act
Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
Toxic Release Inventory under the freedom of information act

The frackers are all exempt from the above

Why do you think they felt the need for this ?

Not even the nuclear industry had these exemptions


I can't say I'm sympathetic to the Halliburton loophole - but I sincerely doubt that negligence resulting in third party harm perpetrated by a contractor or gas operator will escape remedy and onerous legal sanction. The EPA have a recent history of unfounded and truly toxic obstructiveness to natural resource development which has more to do with the recruitment of activists than the reality of the developments they are entrusted with regulating - collaboration is a dirty word.

After looking at the nasty catalogue of malarkey pepetrated by Al Armindiraz (see HERE and HERE self evidently sanctioned by higher-ups) - regulation has obviously descended into a brawl with unreasonableness on both sides - but my personal take on it is that the EPA started it by being absolutely anal twerps. The conniving and intriguing of Lisa P. Jackson - Obamah's highly politicised EPA "chosen one" does not inspire confidence in the honesty, transparency and rationality of that organisation.

It seems that once a bureaucracy gets infected with power drunk, politicised, ignorant activist nitpickers the relationship with the regulated heads south. "Green" projects haven't been inoculated or given the antidote either - see this one in the UK.

It's going to be fun watching Exxon tie DECC / UK Environment Agency in knots - a bureaucracy ice hockey match on the cards there.

Edited by user 17 December 2012 01:51:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tankus
#12 Posted : 17 December 2012 02:03:10(UTC)
Tankus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 20
United Kingdom
Location: The land of my fathers

I don't think they have too........just waft a wad of freshly printed under the noses of our troughing beloveds and mention the words "windfall tax" ! Epa will just roll over .

I've a sneaking feeling that once large scale fracking gets underway...... The countryside alliance is going to mobilize again ,and as its rural, it will be the cons under electorate pressure.....all after the elections then

That last link in Avon is staggering
moonrakin
#13 Posted : 17 December 2012 02:17:30(UTC)
moonrakin

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 60
United Kingdom
Location: Wiltshire

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 8 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Tankus Go to Quoted Post
I don't think they have too........just waft a wad of freshly printed under the noses of our troughing beloveds and mention the words "windfall tax" ! Epa will just roll over .

I've a sneaking feeling that once large scale fracking gets underway...... The countryside alliance is going to mobilize again ,and as its rural, it will be the cons under electorate pressure.....all after the elections then

That last link in Avon is staggering


Ha! the Mill business has escalated since the press release and the Environment Agency are being investigated by The Parliamentary Ombudsman's Office - and.... the investigator is a bit nonplussed (staggered even) - The Environment Agency is flat refusing to co-operate.

I think the environmental impact of fracking is definitely there - but has been grossly overstated by the antis. There are half a dozen stone quarries within 15 miles of here - I believe fracking would be much less obvious than those - which the green welly / 4*4 crowd aren't overly fussed about. I think the traffic jams of clipboard wielding jobsworths in leased top of the range hi-viz Battenburg liveried Toyota Land Cruisers will be more of a nuisance.

Edited by user 17 December 2012 02:24:13(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Robert of Ottawa
#14 Posted : 17 December 2012 02:52:17(UTC)
Robert of Ottawa

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 23/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 73
Canada
Location: Ottawa

Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 6 post(s)
When I first saw that photo, I thought I was being attacked by some Chinese Han Dinasty war robot.

Phew.... it was only Red Ken.
richard
#15 Posted : 17 December 2012 09:06:29(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,036
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Tankus Go to Quoted Post
If it is all so green and risk free...... Why does the fracking industry feel the need to take us legislation back to the Victorian era with the haliburton loophole'?

Which legally exempt 's the industry from fairly basic environmental impact protection

Safe drinking water act
Clean water act
Superfund law
National environmental policy act
Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act
Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
Toxic Release Inventory under the freedom of information act

The frackers are all exempt from the above

Why do you think they felt the need for this ?

Not even the nuclear industry had these exemptions




Possibly because environmentalists have become very adept at mounting blocking law suits, tying up projects and costing a fortune in legal fees, in cases that lack merit, only for them to be thrown out after years of delay. It might be better to sort out the US legal system, but taking on the lawyers is probably not something which is wise to do.

F U Fed Up
#16 Posted : 17 December 2012 12:46:04(UTC)
F U Fed Up

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 264
United Kingdom

Was thanked: 21 time(s) in 19 post(s)
the Octopus system doesn't change the way the Shale is Fracked, just that you need far fewer wells over a very much smaller area...as I read the article.

richard
#17 Posted : 17 December 2012 12:49:42(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,036
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Originally Posted by: F U Fed Up Go to Quoted Post
the Octopus system doesn't change the way the Shale is Fracked, just that you need far fewer wells over a very much smaller area...as I read the article.




I wasn't sure about that ... as far as I can ascertain, it can reduce the need for fracking in certain sites. But in general, I suspect you are probably right.

F U Fed Up
#18 Posted : 17 December 2012 13:13:08(UTC)
F U Fed Up

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 264
United Kingdom

Was thanked: 21 time(s) in 19 post(s)
Quote:
it can reduce the need for fracking in certain sites


The Shale has to be Fracked, as that is how the Gas/oil is released. Octopus is how you get at it from a single site, rather than have to drill from multiple sites over a large area.........it is a major benefit though., especially in lowering drilling costs and will shut up some of the Green lies.....though nothing will persuade them that bird choppers aren't the answer...short of the threat of with being tied between two of them.

Edited by user 17 December 2012 13:20:02(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

richard
#19 Posted : 17 December 2012 13:27:06(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,036
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Originally Posted by: F U Fed Up Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
it can reduce the need for fracking in certain sites


The Shale has to be Fracked, as that is how the Gas/oil is released. Octopus is how you get at it from a single site, rather than have to drill from multiple sites over a large area.........it is a major benefit though., especially in lowering drilling costs and will shut up some of the Green lies.....though nothing will persuade them that bird choppers aren't the answer...short of the threat of with being tied between two of them.


Strictly, fracking is termed "additional stimulation". You can get gas flow from the more permeable shales, although recovery rates are poor. However, increasing the number of wells driven into the strata increases the flow rate, to the extend that fracking can be reduced or, in certain circumstances, omitted altogether.

IanReid
#20 Posted : 17 December 2012 14:06:28(UTC)
IanReid

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 53
United Kingdom
Location: London

Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 4 post(s)
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: F U Fed Up Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
it can reduce the need for fracking in certain sites


The Shale has to be Fracked, as that is how the Gas/oil is released. Octopus is how you get at it from a single site, rather than have to drill from multiple sites over a large area.........it is a major benefit though., especially in lowering drilling costs and will shut up some of the Green lies.....though nothing will persuade them that bird choppers aren't the answer...short of the threat of with being tied between two of them.


Strictly, fracking is termed "additional stimulation". You can get gas flow from the more permeable shales, although recovery rates are poor. However, increasing the number of wells driven into the strata increases the flow rate, to the extend that fracking can be reduced or, in certain circumstances, omitted altogether.



Regardless of the technicalities I suspect that whatever process is used will be forever termed "fracking" by the media, whether because they're lazy idiots who can't be bothered to find out the truth, or because like the BBC/Guardian they know the term has acquired an emotional significance in the popular imagination, largely due to their propaganda of course. We have to live with that reality.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.6.1 | YAF © 2003-2013, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.291 seconds.