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richard
#1 Posted : 16 December 2012 11:38:53(UTC)
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One cannot help but be amused by the great Worstall – slayer of the Greens – carrying multiple adverts for WWF on his blog (above – slightly tidied up: click the link to see the real thing).

I am sure there is a good free market rationale for carrying the propaganda of one's enemies for commercial gain, although I have to admit that it is a little bit difficult to work out. Personally, I prefer the donation model (thank you everybody) rather than turn this blog over to content I cannot control. But then, that's the "free" market for you – take the money and surrender control.

Thus says Tim Worstall (by default): buy a cuddly toy and save the planet. You know it makes sense.

View full article here

bill poster
#2 Posted : 16 December 2012 11:47:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
One cannot help but be amused by the great Worstall – slayer of the Greens – carrying multiple adverts for WWF on his blog (above – slightly tidied up: click the link to see the real thing).

I am sure there is a good free market rationale for carrying the propaganda of one's enemies for commercial gain, although I have to admit that it is a little bit difficult to work out. Personally, I prefer the donation model (thank you everybody) rather than turn this blog over to content I cannot control. But then, that's the "free" market for you – take the money and surrender control.

Thus says Tim Worstall (by default): buy a cuddly toy and save the planet. You know it makes sense.

View full article here



Permit me to mount a brief defence of Worstall before I leave for lunch:

1. It's his blog, his property, and his decision as to when to sell space. I know you appreciate this, just wanted to emphasise. He's calculating the trade off.

2. If you find his decision surprising, consider the following: Green advertising spend, banned from this site, will find its way to a similar one, just without the anti-Green analysis sitting right next to it. The Left survives by avoiding the argument.

3. I don't see those ads. I get car rental. They are likely generated automatically by your past search history. So the real question is, what have you been Googling?
 1 user thanked bill poster for this useful post.
mmatis on 16/12/2012(UTC)
mmatis
#3 Posted : 16 December 2012 12:45:10(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: bill poster Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
One cannot help but be amused by the great Worstall – slayer of the Greens – carrying multiple adverts for WWF on his blog (above – slightly tidied up: click the link to see the real thing).

I am sure there is a good free market rationale for carrying the propaganda of one's enemies for commercial gain, although I have to admit that it is a little bit difficult to work out. Personally, I prefer the donation model (thank you everybody) rather than turn this blog over to content I cannot control. But then, that's the "free" market for you – take the money and surrender control.

Thus says Tim Worstall (by default): buy a cuddly toy and save the planet. You know it makes sense.

View full article here



Permit me to mount a brief defence of Worstall before I leave for lunch:

1. It's his blog, his property, and his decision as to when to sell space. I know you appreciate this, just wanted to emphasise. He's calculating the trade off.

2. If you find his decision surprising, consider the following: Green advertising spend, banned from this site, will find its way to a similar one, just without the anti-Green analysis sitting right next to it. The Left survives by avoiding the argument.

3. I don't see those ads. I get car rental. They are likely generated automatically by your past search history. So the real question is, what have you been Googling?

Also note that the Greens are PAYING their "enemy" for those ads, regardless of whether they sell anything from them or not! It would be good to understand if he is paid a flat rate simply for the ad being there, or whether his compensation increases if there is a click-through. One could surely help him drive his revenues, if THAT is the case!
meltemian
#4 Posted : 16 December 2012 13:28:58(UTC)
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Well I get Forex Ad's (unsurprisingly in Greek) and an invitation to invest in Brazilian Rainforests.

Maybe he doesn't decide who the individual advertisers are?
richard
#5 Posted : 16 December 2012 14:17:12(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: meltemian Go to Quoted Post
Well I get Forex Ad's (unsurprisingly in Greek) and an invitation to invest in Brazilian Rainforests.

Maybe he doesn't decide who the individual advertisers are?



He doesn't ... that's the point. And to others, yes ... it's his decision to take advertising on his blog. And I'm entirely at liberty to take the mick out of him for so doing - and to choose a different model.

bill poster
#6 Posted : 16 December 2012 14:26:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: meltemian Go to Quoted Post
Well I get Forex Ad's (unsurprisingly in Greek) and an invitation to invest in Brazilian Rainforests.

Maybe he doesn't decide who the individual advertisers are?



He doesn't ... that's the point. And to others, yes ... it's his decision to take advertising on his blog. And I'm entirely at liberty to take the mick out of him for so doing - and to choose a different model.



Yes indeed. I get it now. Out of interest, would you consider hosting advertising on a case by case basis, retaining a veto on content? If not, why not?
richard
#7 Posted : 16 December 2012 14:43:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: bill poster Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: meltemian Go to Quoted Post
Well I get Forex Ad's (unsurprisingly in Greek) and an invitation to invest in Brazilian Rainforests.

Maybe he doesn't decide who the individual advertisers are?



He doesn't ... that's the point. And to others, yes ... it's his decision to take advertising on his blog. And I'm entirely at liberty to take the mick out of him for so doing - and to choose a different model.



Yes indeed. I get it now. Out of interest, would you consider hosting advertising on a case by case basis, retaining a veto on content? If not, why not?




On the deals that have been so far offered to me (or are available), there is limited control ... you can exclude groups, such as online gambling, porn, etc, etc, but by the time you have ticked all the boxes where there might be a conflict of interest, there is very little left. Case-by-case is not on offer, but if it was, then I would be prepared to consider it.

Dodgy Geezer
#8 Posted : 16 December 2012 16:41:43(UTC)
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As far as I can see, unless you undergo considerable contortions, by default you end up with adverts which reflect what you have been googling.

This, of course, results in the laughable situation where a major opponent of Big Green will have his search page plastered with green adverts. It also means that the average googler, looking for a new pair of shoes, will find and buy a pair, and then for the next six months have to endure a bombardment of adverts for the one thing he does not want - having just bought some.

I have a general rule of thumb that I will go to a small amount of trouble to suppress adverts, and when I see any I will refuse to purchase the item advertised, even if I need one. It means that I end up buying a lot of obscure items - shopping mainly at CostCo, for example. But then, if you don't have a TV, you don't get to see a lot of Ads anyway...

Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post


On the deals that have been so far offered to me (or are available), there is limited control ... you can exclude groups, such as online gambling, porn, etc, etc, but by the time you have ticked all the boxes where there might be a conflict of interest, there is very little left.



Can't you select adverts which are ONLY on-line gambling, porn, etc? That might produce a far better level of entertainment...

Edited by user 16 December 2012 16:44:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

comet
#9 Posted : 16 December 2012 16:53:01(UTC)
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Same with WUWT, or it used to be, loads of ads to do with solar panels and invitations to contribute to the WWF.

I didn't see anything on Tim Worstall's site, then I remembered, I'd become sick of being pursued round the internet by ads vaguely themed on something I was once slightly interested in, so using Firefox, I installed Adblock Plus.

I use it and recommend it.
SeanOHare
#10 Posted : 16 December 2012 17:07:11(UTC)
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Once again Richard tries hard to put the back up of someone that I thought had very similar views to his own. Why do you feel the need to attack anti-EU, libertarian leaning bloggers like Tim? Aren't there enough statists out there to have a go at?
richard
#11 Posted : 16 December 2012 17:56:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SeanOHare Go to Quoted Post
Once again Richard tries hard to put the back up of someone that I thought had very similar views to his own. Why do you feel the need to attack anti-EU, libertarian leaning bloggers like Tim? Aren't there enough statists out there to have a go at?



Why do you see it as an attack?

Are we so pompous and serious that there is no room any more for a little friendly mockery?
techno
#12 Posted : 16 December 2012 18:03:24(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: comet Go to Quoted Post
I didn't see anything on Tim Worstall's site, then I remembered, I'd become sick of being pursued round the internet by ads vaguely themed on something I was once slightly interested in, so using Firefox, I installed Adblock Plus.

I use it and recommend it.

I don't see all of them because I use Flashblock and I also recommend that.

But when I allow the adverts I get Lloyds Bank and UNICEF.

Originally Posted by: Dodgy Geezer Go to Quoted Post
As far as I can see, unless you undergo considerable contortions, by default you end up with adverts which reflect what you have been googling.

This, of course, results in the laughable situation where a major opponent of Big Green will have his search page plastered with green adverts. It also means that the average googler, looking for a new pair of shoes, will find and buy a pair, and then for the next six months have to endure a bombardment of adverts for the one thing he does not want - having just bought some.

If you visit a lingerie retailer for the next six months you get pictures of scantily clad women...Blushing


Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Are we so pompous and serious that there is no room any more for a little friendly mockery?

Worstall, of all people, should be able to take it.

He writes for the Anorak site with blog titles like The taxpayers should get what they ask for: good and hard.

Clarence
#13 Posted : 16 December 2012 18:19:27(UTC)
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Anyone who writes:

"So this is where I identify the conspiracy in climate change. Not in the basic science, which I'm perfectly happy to accept. But in the discussion, the rules, the regulations, about what we should do about it."*

… is perhaps not quite on side anyway. He's always seemed to be "anti-green" in much the same way that Open Europe is anti-EU.

A review of his book on Amazon starts: "This isn't a "sceptic" book in that it accepts all the "consensus" science and policies of the IPCC and Lord Stern."

All in all, I think WWF and the rest owe him a few quid.



* http://blogs.telegraph.c...racy-or-is-it-a-cock-up/

Edited by user 16 December 2012 18:23:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

SeanOHare
#14 Posted : 16 December 2012 19:51:02(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SeanOHare Go to Quoted Post
Once again Richard tries hard to put the back up of someone that I thought had very similar views to his own. Why do you feel the need to attack anti-EU, libertarian leaning bloggers like Tim? Aren't there enough statists out there to have a go at?



Why do you see it as an attack?

Are we so pompous and serious that there is no room any more for a little friendly mockery?


OK, Maybe I'm overreacting. Are your comments about UKIP and Farage to be classified as "friendly mockery" too?
richard
#15 Posted : 16 December 2012 20:22:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SeanOHare Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SeanOHare Go to Quoted Post
Once again Richard tries hard to put the back up of someone that I thought had very similar views to his own. Why do you feel the need to attack anti-EU, libertarian leaning bloggers like Tim? Aren't there enough statists out there to have a go at?



Why do you see it as an attack?

Are we so pompous and serious that there is no room any more for a little friendly mockery?


OK, Maybe I'm overreacting. Are your comments about UKIP and Farage to be classified as "friendly mockery" too?




How could I possibly compete with Farage? The man does it so well unaided.

comet
#16 Posted : 16 December 2012 20:28:00(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Clarence Go to Quoted Post
Anyone who writes:

"So this is where I identify the conspiracy in climate change. Not in the basic science, which I'm perfectly happy to accept. But in the discussion, the rules, the regulations, about what we should do about it."*

… is perhaps not quite on side anyway. He's always seemed to be "anti-green" in much the same way that Open Europe is anti-EU.

A review of his book on Amazon starts: "This isn't a "sceptic" book in that it accepts all the "consensus" science and policies of the IPCC and Lord Stern."

All in all, I think WWF and the rest owe him a few quid.



* http://blogs.telegraph.c...racy-or-is-it-a-cock-up/


There are two ways of approaching the Green nonsense.

The WUWT etc way. The science is nothing of the sort, it's priestcraft and deconstructing it is the key. Sort that and it all collapses.

The Lawson way. Assuming what the approved climate scientists and the consensus tell us is correct, then the policies aren't rational and are counter productive.

Each has a value.

Reading the article, Worstall seems to be taking it a step further, even assuming the IPCC version of the science is true and the policies are rational, the implementation of the policies is an incredible fraud.

Now, start to dismantle the fraud and the whole thing falls apart.

SeanOHare
#17 Posted : 16 December 2012 21:03:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SeanOHare Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SeanOHare Go to Quoted Post
Once again Richard tries hard to put the back up of someone that I thought had very similar views to his own. Why do you feel the need to attack anti-EU, libertarian leaning bloggers like Tim? Aren't there enough statists out there to have a go at?



Why do you see it as an attack?

Are we so pompous and serious that there is no room any more for a little friendly mockery?


OK, Maybe I'm overreacting. Are your comments about UKIP and Farage to be classified as "friendly mockery" too?




How could I possibly compete with Farage? The man does it so well unaided.



Touché! Good answer Richard. My point though, as I have oft expressed before, is that to progress the Harrogate Agenda you will need friends - a lot of them! No one is suggesting that you throw in your lot with any other organisation, far from it, but borrowing/stealing activists from them just maybe a good idea. I think the Harrogate Agenda is something that deserves to be shouted from the root tops and I know I'm not the only one in UKIP that thinks that way. I have already pointed quite a few members at your "Harrogate Demands" post, but when they get interested they may well be put off by your asides regarding UKIP. We know you and Farage have history, but lets not sink your initiative before it really gets started.
John Archer
#18 Posted : 16 December 2012 21:06:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: comet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clarence Go to Quoted Post
Anyone who writes:

"So this is where I identify the conspiracy in climate change. Not in the basic science, which I'm perfectly happy to accept. But in the discussion, the rules, the regulations, about what we should do about it."*

… is perhaps not quite on side anyway. He's always seemed to be "anti-green" in much the same way that Open Europe is anti-EU.

A review of his book on Amazon starts: "This isn't a "sceptic" book in that it accepts all the "consensus" science and policies of the IPCC and Lord Stern."

All in all, I think WWF and the rest owe him a few quid.



* http://blogs.telegraph.c...racy-or-is-it-a-cock-up/


There are two ways of approaching the Green nonsense.

The WUWT etc way. The science is nothing of the sort, it's priestcraft and deconstructing it is the key. Sort that and it all collapses.

The Lawson way. Assuming what the approved climate scientists and the consensus tell us is correct, then the policies aren't rational and are counter productive.

Each has a value.

Reading the article, Worstall seems to be taking it a step further, even assuming the IPCC version of the science is true and the policies are rational, the implementation of the policies is an incredible fraud.

Now, start to dismantle the fraud and the whole thing falls apart.


That's why I like this blog — insightful comments with a useful slant, like that one. Added value!


Of course, there are a few other things too. Winky dink! :)
comet
#19 Posted : 17 December 2012 00:14:41(UTC)
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John,

long ago I had a manager whose duty it was to send me on tedious corporate courses he had as little time for as I did.

He said if I was really pissed off, direct argument was bound to fail and the way to tackle it was to become an enthusiastic disciple and then start asking questions, which were ideologically pure, but couldn't be answered. You supply ridiculous and ideologically pure answers for the lecturer who can't deal with your enthusiasm. You walk away from it having fully understood the course and being ready for the next, but having undermined the lot. You have never been negative about the course, quite the opposite. It works. The Socratic method.

The other approach is to draw exactly the wrong conclusions from the course. A diversity course is a course of instruction for the demagogue to manipulate and divide any given population along arbitrary lines and control it. Shame about the identified scum but the course organisers should have thought about the consequences. That one's harder to play but even more of a larf.

Worstall's gone for the Socratic approach, which is an attack on the jugular. After all, we don't care about a few millions paid to tossers playing with computer models and incompetently keeping temperature records, it's the hundreds of billions we're forking out to slay an imaginary monster.

John Archer
#20 Posted : 17 December 2012 13:01:48(UTC)
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BigGrin

Comet,

I love that idea of taking it to extremes, of 'pushing the ideological envelope' to purity's nirvana, so forcing the whole thing to blow up in their faces. There's a deal of sweetness to that that strongly appeals to me.

The only trouble with it is the extreme mental self-discipline needed in overcoming the inner rage and the overwhelming desire to rip the bastards throats out. There's also the lesser impediment of having to be highly focused on doing and saying precisely the opposite of one's natural instincts and thought processes, all the while combining that constantly in a web of inner lies, the latter being very hard work indeed (one reason why I prefer the truth, possibly the main one haha). I suppose one would have to adopt the Hollywood actor's approach and 'get into the part'. Oh wait! Actually, putting it that way, it could be quite fun! Yes, I think I could do that. All that's need is the right attitood — kinda like that of one long epic piss-take. Yes! Sold! :)

I feel inspired!

Right, I just need to get out there and get cracking. I'm all fired up! Let's go! :)


P.S. Thanks. Tee hee!

P.P.S. We can always kick their teeth out in the back alley afterwards, for total satisfaction.
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