Originally Posted by: Dodgy Geezer 
Originally Posted by: theenglishpainter Originally Posted by: Julian Williams Perhaps one reason they frame the debate is time. They never have time for a debate of substance since they cut the programs into short segments, and before they start the questioning they want to frame the discussion to keep it short.
As for AGW...
Ahhh, AGW.....
The science is now looking very bad for the AGW hypothesis, though you wouldn't learn that from Doha, or the BBC. But it does pose an itsy bit of a problem for the IPCC AR5 report, due out in a little while.
A copy of the current draft has just been leaked, here.
http://www.stopgreensuicide.com/It is, you will see, the usual paste-up, with one minor noticeable exception. Their line has always been:
1 - it's getting hotter
2 - it must be CO2
3 - because we can't think of anything else it could be....
This is where the science goes wrong, because, try as they might, they have been unable to show unequivocally that CO2 is actually causing temperature change. They just assume it.
Now, for the first time, they explicitly state that there might be some mileage in an alternative explanation. That would be Svensmark's Cloud hypothesis. This gives them a get-out clause, so that they can withdraw gracefully as the CO2 science goes down.
Interesting, don't you think?
DG you are bit off topic here but you are touching on an interesting topic, there are personalities in public life who follow a common trajectory.
1.
It starts with stupidity or ignorance (that is where B.J seems to be in his plans to renegotiate Britain's relationship with the EU
2.
It develops into a denial, which is when they find themselves boxed into a corner, and they fail to come clean and admit they got it wrong
3.
It then develops into living a lie that has to be constantly restated and covered up. This is the point where things begin to become evil, knowingly to tell harmful lies (this is where many scientists working with the IPCC and many financial analysts working with the Eurozone already are)
Stupidity turns into denial turns into living and propagating lies.
This banal idea has came to me because I have become an unwilling local activist against some wind farm projects locally, and I find myself writing their newsletters. The bureaucrats in the planning department have done exactly this, and now are impaled on a bed of lies and I am crucifying them with a million pins. You can see them getting deeper and deeper into the mire, and as an outsider you find yourself saying "
come on have a bout of honesty, it is not very difficult and you will be free of this mess". But they don't have the guts to face the truth, and then you see them going deeper, and as they go deeper the lies and falsities become ever more obvious, but the deeper they get the harder they find it to be honest. It is Dante's story of losing your path and finding yourself lost in a wood and then descending into the various ever worse circles of hell. No one intends to go there, they find themselves there because they have weak personalities.
This is a personality trait. I don't think it is Boris' personality because he finds it quite easy to come clean. His stupidity will not lead him to becoming a rampant liar, at some point he will either drop the subject or change his mind.
But our political elite, and chattering classes, are full of people who really do go on digging.
I don't think the IPCC are coming clean, they have included the Svensmark hypothesis very reluctantly, and furtively, and arewrapping it in their report in a way that it will be included (because to not include it would leave them open to attack) but skirted over, covered up and not be noticed too much by their followers. They could not leave it out any more, but they cannot admit to it either. They are just going deeper and living even bigger lies. It is the ugly head of evil.
Edited by user 14 December 2012 23:52:00(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
