Lord, I wish there were some way to get rid of these unspeakable insults to the British people--- by which I mean first Camoron. Why on earth we bow down and pay any of them anything is a mystery to me. There has to be a way to cut the costs even as we cut ourselves loose.

Oh, by the way, Dr. N. I've been looking over some of the Graffiti artwork just lately: it's a popular way that rebels can use for getting the message out to the not-so-stupid British "plebs." Banksy is an interesting example. Just wondering if any of them have any (unofficial) connections to, sympathy with, or awareness of, the Harrogate Agenda.

Can you remind me Richard what being in the EEA means. I forget whether the EEA rules apply to all trade even intra the member nation or just the trade between the nation and the EU.

I'm sure you have see this:

http://www.brugesgroup.com/EFTAorTheEU.pdf

Edited by user 11 December 2012 07:59:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

EUSSR ". I've been looking over some of the Graffiti artwork just lately: it's a popular way that rebels can use for getting the message out"

Apart from some welcome Graffiti you could do worse than look at Rifleman 1853's very robust letter indeed to Cameron on Orphans of Liberty site today. Just the sort of language even he should be able to understand. And that's only Part 1!
A heart warming read - in fact it deserves the widest possible circulation.

"Brussels may well agree". And if "Brussels" doesn't agree ... what then?

In fact, "Brussels" mean all the other 26 member states agreeing ... any one has a veto. And that is supposing that there is a majority agreement for treaty change to be discussed ... and that such a change does not require a convention.

Kavanagh, I fear, is talking out of his backside.

Yes ... that's quite a good summary ... we can add and refine but that is an admirable starting point.

http://www.4liberty.org..../open-letter-to-cameron/

Just in case anyone else is having a problem here's the link.

An excellent debunking as usual.

If that is the Green Tosser's best shot then we have little to fear. As others have said and ignorieing the good Doc's points, trying to argue that we will end up like Switzerland or Norway is just so stupid, as everyone knows how well off and rich they are, whereas all one sees looking at the EU is poverty and misery. which is guaranteed under all past EU performance, to get far, far worse.

The man is a first class dolt....but we all know that.

Richard: "I beg to differ ... it is a pathetic, ill-informed rant. Do you really think this will recover the high ground?"

I assume you meant Rifleman's and not Cameron's? (joking) But don't be so churlish Richard. Of course its a good old fashioned rant and not meant to be an intellectual lecture on the pros and cons of LibCon policy in any depth?
Ill informed? Not really I think - he seems to articulate in populist language what a great number of people actually feel.
I understand when a guy feels so angry he feel he must get it off his chest.

Farage rants too as we all well know, but that is why he is generally popular and gets listened to in some measure - he populises the realist case. Is'nt there a place for "high ground" political and intellectual presentation of the case against the EU and the rant as well? Hitchens is often another ranter - but can be very powerful when he excoriates the Tories.

What is needed is a Professor of history to lead UK (not alone ) politics, then if he/she makes mistakes they will be new ones, reading on the net quotes by PLATO (425 BC ) nothing has changed in the political world in 2,500 years, politicians held degrees in stupid 2,500 years ago, the only difference is today they have honors !

I think you are being too kind to put Cameron’s comments down to ignorance. It is like the “Trade” comments that fail to mention we have a monthly trading deficit of £4 billion-plus and that the EU’s sales to the UK are worth £16 billion a month, why would the EU stop trading with us if we were to withdraw?
There are also hidden costs such as customs duties from ships and aircraft using British ports.
The expense scandals show the ethical standards of our political class and with the amount of unaccountable money available to the EU one wonders if they have decided to cut out the electorate and just buy up our politicians.