The man dubbed the "unknown Cabinet minister" comes out into the open today with a stinging rebuke for the "instant outers", telling us that we can't just tear up all the EU legislation and walk away from it.

As secretary of state for Defra, he is only too well aware that, in his department alone there are 40,000 pages of environmental regulations that originate somehow in the European Union. "You can’t just chainsaw them", he says. "You would still need laws to regulate the health of farms and the safety of abattoirs".

This is a man who tells us his views on Britain and the EU are well known. He is counted among those around the Cabinet table who would opt for the exit. Furthermore, he genuinely holds that position, and has done so for many years, arguing that "we'd do a lot better if we made a lot more laws locally in our own Parliament".

View full article here

Well, you are certainly speaking from ignorance. Paterson was very open with his views long before he was appointed SoS. Why would he have been appointed in the first place if our "betters" were so opposed to those views?

I read the article in the paper earlier, and was surprised and encouraged by this:

My first thought was that Richard North had got a job as his SpAd. This is a dose of subtlety and realism unknown to UKIP.

In contrast to the cynical opinions of others here, you bring joy to my heart with this post Dr. North.

The article in the Telegraph and the analysis are very illuminating.

I have a good look at his bio and looked at some of his recent speeches:

He seems to come across as a grounded in ‘real’ life man with considerable ‘real’ life experience outside the ‘bubble’.

His views on the EU are more realistic and more cynically honest than most, however given such he MUST know that article 50 is the only way to extricate ourselves both legitimately and with the minimum of disruption. Yet I can see no reference to such anywhere in his speeches articles or quotes!

That the EU is forging ahead with a new treaty has been well covered and apart from EU ref and other blogs who can see the logical consequence of such action (Britain is left on the outside) apart from this article where Owen Patterson acknowledges such there is no meaningful analysis of such in the MSM that I can see.

That Britain will be left ‘out in the cold’ when a new treaty is ratified, is obvious to those of us who follow matters EU. And that such a situation can only strengthen the ‘out’ decision IF a referendum offering such an option were to appear.

However no-one has contemplated the alternative: What if a Parliament ergo an Executive stuffed with Europhiles decided to integrate us further? Firstly by adopting the Euro and then becoming signatories to the new treaty that will emerge.

It is not beyond the realms of fantasy to contemplate such using arguments of being left out, having no say, being powerless to influence and that the EU is our only hope of economic salvation ad nauseum!

I think it is a scenario worthy of contemplation; never underestimate ones opponent, always think of countermoves 3 - 4moves ahead of their own. To dismiss such a move out of hand could be folly.

Believe me, it doesn't.

Roger

do you read this blog and others like Boiling Frog, AM and Witterings from Witney?

if so

something extremely positive and frankly the only answer to our ills, to ponder on

The Harrogate Agenda

http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83181

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Andy Baxter wrote: "However no-one has contemplated the alternative: What if a Parliament ergo an Executive stuffed with Europhiles decided to integrate us further? Firstly by adopting the Euro and then becoming signatories to the new treaty that will emerge."

I think with the present uncertain Eurozone prospects and the real possibility of its collapse then this would be a game changer, but nobody knows if in that eventuality what the political fall out would entail for the UK.
But your possible "alternative" Andy, would surely precipitate the much vaunted Tory "Referendum Lock" and that would be but one scenario in such circumstances.

To return to Paterson. He certainly has sound common sense and a perspective on the current UK/EU relationship that is encouraging, but he is not PM, and does not make Tory policy, so there is little prospect of change for the forseeable future is there?
Many of us have opined that whilst Cameron remains in office then nothing will move much at all away from the status quo. He is determined to maintain that.
DC's coming "important speech" will no doubt be packed with the usual vague assurances and empty promises. I see little prospect of the existing Tory Party/Coalition invoking Article 50 of the LT for all the tired old reasons of even deeper Tory splits with consequent need for someone to make a decision about an In/Out referendum.
I believe the latter is is now certain as acknowledged and established in Westminster, and because of expectations in the country. but not its timing, or by what political party.

Andy, not only is it not beyond the realms of fantasy I have a sinking feeling that we could be there in 2015 or very soon after - when Labour regain control (if that's the right word!)

Anyone who seriously believes that the country can simply walk away from 40 years (and the rest) of Treaties and agreements overnight is seriously deluded. Forget the EU, why would anyone ever negotiate with us ever again if outcomes can simply be torn up overnight?

Some bad news for those who see the 'Article 50 two years' (a nonsense anyway) as being too long - a decade+ is a more realistic timescale for exit negotiations.

Try this one. The Scots vote for separation from England but choose to remain in the EU. How much negotiation with England must both the EU and the Scots work through before an 'equitable' agreement is on the table? How will we separate 'road maintenance'? The 'National Grid'? Rights of non-EU citizens (The English) in Scotland?

It occurred to me today that not only will UKIP fail in their supposed mission but their 'overnight exit' babbling will ensure that we will still be in the EU until it becomes obvious in a decade or so that we are only invited to the (EU) party as a 'courtesy'. One could almost see UKIP as working for the opposition. Anyone who has given their 'policy' a minutes thought will quickly realise that it is complete fantasy. I know that some on this board think that 'Joe Six Pack' can be manipulated using the power of 'strictly come dancing' but you are only deluding yourselves. Faced with a choice between 'see how it goes' and 'f*ck the EU - we are out in the morning' J6P will choose 'see how it goes'. Give J6P more credit FFS.