The former deputy leader of UKIP, Lord Monckton, has been ejected from the Doha climate change talks and permanently banned after impersonating a delegate from Burma on the conference floor, says the loss-making Guardian.

At one of the sessions, Monckton assumed the seat for Burma in place of the real delegate, and addressed the hall from his microphone. He spoke for nearly a minute, before being escorted out.

He was ejected from the conference centre, had his badge revoked, and is thought to have left the country. The UN later confirmed he had been permanently barred from future rounds of the talks. Monckton did not respond to requests for comment by the Guardian.

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At one point I admired this mans tenacity and intellect. But he seems incapable of moving on. He is still harping on that the green house effect is real and CO2 causes warming but that the numbers are wrong and the effect is negligible.

To my mind, and it has to be born in mind I'm just a mere mechanical engineer, the debate has moved on to question the very existence of the greenhouse effect. Nowhere has any proof been produced that demonstrates the greenhouse effect is real. Given this fact I would have though there is a rather large hole in the warmest argument.

But as has been pointed out by Richard over many posts it not about science.

Monckton, toed the line on CO2 because it enabled him to attend these gobfests. Whether he, or anyone still believes the fallacious MMCO2= global warming thing apart from; Hansen, Gore, Miliband, Barker, Mann, Monbiot and the Notting Hill + beeb graun' reading crew is open to speculation and even some of them may have realised the game is up. Sufficed to say that, there is a correlation but that, Temperature rises precede - yup that means come before rises in CO2 and that is a FACT.

The Greenprats and WWF et al were looking for any excuse to eject Monckton and rather stupidly or more likely on purpose - he provided them with the pretext by speaking out of turn.

Thing is though, he [Monckton] told 'em [UN-COP18] a truth they did not want to hear and by kicking him out - they caused a far bigger brouhaha - which is a silly noun but rather suits a conference filled with delegates which are collectively inanely useless and in their pompous utterings and the rambling freakfest circus the process [COP CCC] has travelled far beyond parody. Thus, Monckton achieved more PR for his stunt.

UN Headless chickens - score another own goal - and is it not time for the referee to blow his whistle on the whole sordid affair.

Edited by user 08 December 2012 13:14:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Well you learn something every day....looked up Umar Khayyam.....The camel must have been a devout muslim.

Edited by user 08 December 2012 09:09:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Looks as if the Moving Camel had the last word!

Edited by user 08 December 2012 11:25:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Science is about precision, but politics is bedeviled by ambiguity.

It is true that, in a lab experiment, you can show that CO2 molecules let visible light and UV through, so that they impinge on a solid target behind. This target then heats up and emits IR. The CO2 absorbs the IR radiation and re-emits it in all directions, including back towards the target, which warms up slightly more in consequence. This is the 'greenhouse' effect.

Denying that that happens in the lab is foolish, because it can be shown by experiment. So if Monckton were to 'deny' that the effect exists, he could be swept aside easily politically. The political argument has been:

Does the greenhouse effect exist? - Yes
Then we're all doomed! - No, because the maths and experiment show it to be insignificant.
I'm a politician - I can't do maths. We're all doomed.....

I have, in fact, had almost precisely this response from my local Liberal councillor.


What happens in the real-world atmosphere, however, is a different question again. You are correct to state that the estimated numbers have no experimental justification, and that the models which rely on this effect are probably wrong. In particular, the theory states that the middle troposphere should show a 'hot spot' from this re-radiation, and nothing has ever been found. So the 'greenhouse effect' which can be shown in a lab is either completely nonoperational for some reason in real life, or produces such a minor effect that it is swamped by natural heat exchanges.

Myself, I believe that the effect might provide a very small heat increase at the surface if the atmosphere could be held static. But that in fact, the atmosphere undergoes huge bouts of convective activity, during which masses of heat is carried into the stratosphere by phenomena like thunderstorms - and it is these heat exchanges which determine the actual temperature of the land surface. Furthermore, the processes are inherently stable, so that if excess heat occurs then more convection occurs to dispel it. Under these circumstances it makes a lot of sense to say that, for an engineer dealing in tolerances, the greenhouse effect 'can be ignored for the purposes of this discussion'. It can be treated as if it does not exist.

But woe betide you if you try to make this assertion to a politician....

Come, fill the Cup, and in the Fire of Spring
The Winter Garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To fly -- and Lo! the Bird is on the Wing.


It's time for a little repentance from the alarmists methinks.
You can't argue with the facts, although they seem to keep trying.
Truth will out, it's just taking a while for the "Bird" to get here.

(Sorry - I seem to be in an allegorical mood this morning, must be the weather )

What can one say about Monckton's intervention? Tee Hee was my reaction.

As for the Doha talks in crisis, with India, China, Canada, New Zealand and the USA not interested, all is not good news.

From Loopy's article in the DT:



It's not the end of the lunacy for us and it may get worse.

The EU has high ambitions for combating climate change. In the UK we have several prominent centres of madness regarded by the politicians as national treasures, the Met Office, CRU etc, and our politicians definitely see this as an opportunity for Britain to lead the way - always a tally-ho to pursue something ruinously expensive and totally pointless at best.

Showing my ignorance But that is a damn fine quote,appropriate here really.Monckton has said it now and all the world is repeating it.

I had actually seen a few of the quotes without realising the origin.This one I did like



And I do like this............

Edited by user 08 December 2012 13:42:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The Rubaiyat

Not sure but it looks like one of the Fitzgerald translations.