logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

richard
#1 Posted : 06 December 2012 09:30:02(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,035
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Flagged up by Handelsblatt this morning is an exclusive report telling us that the German federal government is to compensate energy-intensive industries for increased electricity costs arising from the European Trading Scheme (ETS).

The aluminium, steel, copper, chemicals and paper sectors are amongst the thirteen that will qualify for remission from carbon emission costs in Europe from January 2013, although the paper says the details of the funding are as yet unclear.

Nevertheless, new regulations are planned to apply from January 2013 when the third term of the European emissions trading scheme starts. Energy suppliers will then have to buy all the certificates they need to cover their own emissions.

View full article here
bill poster
#2 Posted : 06 December 2012 09:45:41(UTC)
bill poster

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 21
United Kingdom
Location: Oxford

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 4 post(s)
The EU giveth, and the EU taketh away...

Or rather, it taketh away, and then it gives a little back, if we're good.

One gets the impression that the EU policy process resembles the following:

1. Legislate against what we don't like, as if there will be no other consequences
2. Ignore or deny the consequences
3. When (2) is no longer feasible, enact new legislation to counteract the effect of the old
4. If it breaks existing rules, never mind
5. Repeat (1-4) until everything stops.

So in this particular case:

1. Legislate to raise the price of energy, as if this will not actually involve increased prices or relocation of production
2. Deny that the policies are to blame for high energy prices, and claim that anyway this will help production in the future, because private citizens don't appreciate how great renewables will be if we only invest enough in them, so we have to expropriate their wealth for their own good
3. Finally note that increased prices actually affect economic decision making, and legislate to reimburse those lucky enough to have mobile assets, thereby cleverly requiring them to buy into the corporatist game and divert resources from production to lobbying. Maintain the costs precisely on those who are least able to escape them, or to lobby effectively for their interests: the citizenry
4. If this breaks state aid rule, who cares? They are only our rules. Let's establish a loophole, and who is going to call us on it?
5. Now, where did I put that CAP subsidy list?

Edited by user 06 December 2012 16:25:53(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

In2minds
#3 Posted : 06 December 2012 10:06:50(UTC)
In2minds

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 197
Location: midlands

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
I wonder if this move, state help for certain sectors of industry, will reignite the dispute between the EU and the US, I'm thinking of the Boeing - Airbus spat?
Ravenscar
#4 Posted : 06 December 2012 11:16:35(UTC)
Ravenscar

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 918
Location: The North

Thanks: 113 times
Was thanked: 128 time(s) in 88 post(s)
Great work Richard, your encyclopaedic knowledge [of the inner machinations of the slave empire] and attention to detail is simply astounding - the crazy gang have outdone themselves here have they not?

A conversation in Brussels...................

"What's the plan Marios/Herman/Manuel?"

Er.............. were gonna have a carbon emissions trading scheme and turn the whole of western Europe into a de-industrialised green Utopia for all of our people, in doing so and the end vision: is to send them back into the dark ages literally and figuratively".

"Der wotz that?"

"Yer know - Big industry hamstrung by the mad, bad, lunatic green nutters - EU Kommissars."

"Why?"

"To save the world by limiting man made CO2 emissions and making industry pay for their evil pollution by buying carbon indulgences making lots of investment bankers oodles of cash and so that polluting industry in Europe can still carry on to pollute the atmosphere....um by planting trees and helping our Asian brothers buy Mercedes in India".

"Why?"

"Because we can - its a power jig baby!?"

"Do you hate these western European people so much, I guess so".

"Well, we've been a long time planning, those pesky peasants they were always causing trouble and even Joe couldn't quite fix it in Moscow or chubby chops in Peking. But since post apocalypse and WWII when Bobby Schuy and Claude [or was it Jean?] got together with the US Democrats [pinkos] and world elite and club of Rome, when we decided to throw Western Europe to the dogs.... lordy and riding that juiced up buggy going to hell in a hand cart when CAGW came along, shi7 we all nearly fell over ourselves - the jigsaw was complete - it was so perfect!

"Jeez".

"Make the people pay!"


"But how are you going to tax the people when all the industry closes down?"


"Er........................well we'll do a bit of tinkering and make the taxpayer pay again - just a little bit more.....................but what if the taxpayer has no money left...............................well ahem, er we'll give the IMF a bell!"

Not quite the end by any means but very nearly the start of the end and do you know what?

British politicians insist, "staying in the EU is good for Britain". Time for the tumbrels.
 2 users thanked Ravenscar for this useful post.
flyinthesky on 06/12/2012(UTC), aster on 07/12/2012(UTC)
gareth
#5 Posted : 06 December 2012 11:42:29(UTC)
gareth

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 18/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 10 time(s) in 9 post(s)
Will this apply to energy used to make products for the EU and for export equally, or just apply to exports?

If it is the latter something vaguely similar already happens with sugar. The gist of it being sugar prices in the EU are inflated by the sugar beet subsidy regime and import tariffs which would make exports of sugar uncompetitive, so as a result the exporters of sugar get paid in order for their exports to be competitive *outside the EU*.
flyinthesky
#6 Posted : 06 December 2012 18:09:14(UTC)
flyinthesky

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 101
United Kingdom
Location: Lancashire

Thanks: 64 times
Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)
This has always been the core of my argument aginst the warmers, we haven't reduced our carbon, if that's what floats your boat, footprint at all, we've exported it. In doing so we have in fact increased it. Whereas our home industrial production has been subject to various emission and clean air act directives the far east has no such restrictions. If there's a buck in it burn it.
Not only are these people lying to us they're lying to themselves.
nemesis
#7 Posted : 06 December 2012 20:46:11(UTC)
nemesis

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 47
United Kingdom
Location: Middlesex

Thanks: 32 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Originally Posted by: bill poster Go to Quoted Post
The EU giveth, and the EU taketh away...

Or rather, it taketh away, and then it gives a little back, if we're good.

One gets the impression that the EU policy process resembles the following:

1. Legislate against what we don't like, as if there will be no other consequences
2. Ignore or deny the consequences
3. When (2) is no longer feasible, enact new legislation to counteract the effect of the old
4. If it breaks existing rules, never mind
5. Repeat (1-4) until everything stops.

So in this particular case:

1. Legislate to raise the price of energy, as if this will not actually involve increased prices or relocation of production
2. Deny that the policies are to blame for high energy prices, and claim that anyway this will help production in the future, because private citizens don't appreciate how great renewables will be if we only invest enough in them, so we have to expropriate their wealth for their own good
3. Finally note that increased prices actually affect economic decision making, and legislate to reimburse those lucky enough to have mobile assets, thereby cleverly requiring them to buy into the corporatist game and divert resources from production to lobbying. Maintain the costs precisely on those who are least able to escape them, or to lobby effectively for their interests: the citizenry
4. If this breaks state aid rule, who cares? They are only our rules. Let's establish a loophole, and who is going to call us on it?
5. Now, where did I put that CAP subsidy list?


Or, as Ronald Regan put it (in relation to markets): " If it moves - tax it, If it still keeps moving - regulate it and if it stops moving - subsidise it.

PaulSC
#8 Posted : 07 December 2012 09:04:20(UTC)
PaulSC

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5
United Kingdom
Location: Reading

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
A bit late for Anglesey Aluminium.
richard
#9 Posted : 07 December 2012 11:21:17(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,035
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 97 times
Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
Originally Posted by: PaulSC Go to Quoted Post
A bit late for Anglesey Aluminium.




You are right ... but then, we have been there before ... too little, too late seems to be a characteristic of British public policy.

letmethink
#10 Posted : 09 December 2012 10:11:33(UTC)
letmethink

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 291
Man
Location: Essex

Thanks: 78 times
Was thanked: 44 time(s) in 31 post(s)
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PaulSC Go to Quoted Post
A bit late for Anglesey Aluminium.




You are right ... but then, we have been there before ... too little, too late seems to be a characteristic of British public policy.



. . . too little, too late OR too much, too soon.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.6.1 | YAF © 2003-2013, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.470 seconds.