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richard
#1 Posted : 04 December 2012 12:27:48(UTC)
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In the wake of Rodney Leach's initiative yesterday, to have Boris Johnson today coming up with virtually the same agenda is not a coincidence.

This is part of the three-legged europhile strategy that we saw emerging last month as an antidote to euroscepticism and the "out" movement. We can call this the "Reform-Renegotiate-Scare" (RRS) strategy.

Johnson, like Leach, is running the Tory-inspired "renegotiate" leg, speaking at a Thomson Reuters "Newsmaker" event in London. He is another one pretending that Britain can renegotiate a relationship with the EU, this time with the idea that we could cut back our involvement to "the single market only".

View full article here

 1 user thanked richard for this useful post.
aster on 04/12/2012(UTC)
vincent
#2 Posted : 04 December 2012 13:30:07(UTC)
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Quote:
We are at risk of losing the game.


Not wishing to sound defeatist,were we ever going to win it?What with the 3 major parties all in favour and a goodly part of the establishment from the Church of England to the BBC/media.Tptb march on relentlessly toward ever closer union into oblivion,with us tied to the rear.


And only UKIP standing against...and this humble but worthy blog.BigGrin

It has always been a lost cause.We can only wait for the inevitable nervous breakdown heading the EU's way to break this spell hanging over us all.
TheBoilingFrog
#3 Posted : 04 December 2012 13:43:31(UTC)
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Quote:
"I don’t understand why we continually urge the eurozone countries to go forward with this fiscal and political union, when we know in our hearts that it is anti-democratic and therefore intellectually and morally wrong," he said.


One wonders as well whether Johnson sees the threat, via the above statement, that a new treaty which moves the Eurozone towards its intentional destination, of Britain being pushed out of the EU as a consequence.
comet
#4 Posted : 04 December 2012 13:46:32(UTC)
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It's never been difficult for the Tories to park the issue, or to lose it in what seems the eminently reasonable objective of renegotiation, which they never get round to explaining, much less attempting. Their main objective is to get to the GE, which realistically they have already lost, without spoiling the EU game. A problem the Tories have is that fewer and fewer believe a word they say, especially with Cameron at the helm.

I agree with Vincent, forces from within the EU, collapsing it, or kicking us out, are likely to be more important than anti-EU sentiment in the UK pulling us out. That's not to say that euroscepticism in the UK won't have an effect, it just won't be the decisive effect. It's never looked as simple as electing a UKIP government with a massive majority and ending our membership of the EU.

E.g. the current upsurge in euroscepticism has largely been fuelled by the travails of the Euro. The EU project no longer seems inevitable.



richard
#5 Posted : 04 December 2012 13:58:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
"I don’t understand why we continually urge the eurozone countries to go forward with this fiscal and political union, when we know in our hearts that it is anti-democratic and therefore intellectually and morally wrong," he said.


One wonders as well whether Johnson sees the threat, via the above statement, that a new treaty which moves the Eurozone towards its intentional destination, of Britain being pushed out of the EU as a consequence.



I watched the vid of Johnson speaking ... embarrassing! Bumbling delivery, hesitant, incoherent and uninspiring. This did not strike me as a man who was master of his brief. I think he is just mouthing what he has been told to say.

richard
#6 Posted : 04 December 2012 14:00:41(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vincent Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
We are at risk of losing the game.


Not wishing to sound defeatist,were we ever going to win it?What with the 3 major parties all in favour and a goodly part of the establishment from the Church of England to the BBC/media.Tptb march on relentlessly toward ever closer union into oblivion,with us tied to the rear.


And only UKIP standing against...and this humble but worthy blog.BigGrin

It has always been a lost cause.We can only wait for the inevitable nervous breakdown heading the EU's way to break this spell hanging over us all.



If UKIP had a sensible strategy, maybe we could do better. I, for one, would be supporting it.


http://yourfreedomandour...h-dear-friends-once.html
TheBoilingFrog
#7 Posted : 04 December 2012 14:03:12(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
"I don’t understand why we continually urge the eurozone countries to go forward with this fiscal and political union, when we know in our hearts that it is anti-democratic and therefore intellectually and morally wrong," he said.


One wonders as well whether Johnson sees the threat, via the above statement, that a new treaty which moves the Eurozone towards its intentional destination, of Britain being pushed out of the EU as a consequence.



I watched the vid of Johnson speaking ... embarrassing! Bumbling delivery, hesitant, incoherent and uninspiring. This did not strike me as a man who was master of his brief. I think he is just mouthing what he has been told to say.



Fair enough, I'm always wary of 'Boris the Bumbler' persona - in some ways I think it's an act to fool people into underestimating him - on the other hand he could just be exactly what you say...

Edited by user 04 December 2012 14:03:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

comet
#8 Posted : 04 December 2012 14:12:49(UTC)
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Johnson isn't a fool. He may be lazy and have lapses of judgement, but he isn't a fool.

I get the impression that Hannan and Johnson have been been told to get with the programme. "Here are your new scripts. Stick to them if you know what's good for you. And by the way, nobody cares what you think, so no more rocking the boat. This is serious".
aster
#9 Posted : 04 December 2012 14:21:29(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
In the wake of Rodney Leach's initiative yesterday, to have Boris Johnson today coming up with virtually the same agenda is not a coincidence.

This is part of the three-legged europhile strategy that we saw emerging last month as an antidote to euroscepticism and the "out" movement. We can call this the "Reform-Renegotiate-Scare" (RRS) strategy.

Johnson, like Leach, is running the Tory-inspired "renegotiate" leg, speaking at a Thomson Reuters "Newsmaker" event in London. He is another one pretending that Britain can renegotiate a relationship with the EU, this time with the idea that we could cut back our involvement to "the single market only".

View full article here



Seems to me that what is exercising Boris is the prospect of the City losing Euro business. The French (Noyer) are making rude noises, but the real threat is perhaps Germany having now adopted the Euro as the new Deutschmark and their determination to handle all Euro business in Frankfurt.

That would fit with Germany's more than a century of playing beggar my neighbour with currencies, inflations and even the Weimar collapse - determined not to pay a penny of the Versailles settlement. Okay, I know you are laughing, but...

Germany was even more horribly humiliated after the 2nd World War, even by the Americans, who much prefer the Germans to the French (who doesn't?)

Max Kaiser says he has moved his programme base from Paris to London, because "Germany has declared war on London" and his expectation is that the City will be demolished within 18 months (I'll post the link if anyone wants it)

Both the US and Europe have been happy for 100 years to have all their currency dirty work offshored to London, but as Mervyn King reminds us "banks are global until they fail, then they are national." Boris and Dave want it every way - Euro corporate statism plus City criminal profits and supremacy. Boris is mumbling because he can't get his head round it.

Thank you Richard for the reform-renegotiate scare piece, which leaves my persistent mild depression intact. And for allowing me to air my mad theory.
Ravenscar
#10 Posted : 04 December 2012 14:22:06(UTC)
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Boris Johnson, wears a dreamcoat of many colours but is at heart a zealous and authoritarian statist who would very much like the internet to be curtailed by severe censorship. He's also a philandering playboy and verbose procrastinator but apart from that, quite incredibly, people somehow still do love him but do they take him seriously and if they do we are doomed - a bit more.
richard
#11 Posted : 04 December 2012 14:39:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: comet Go to Quoted Post
Johnson isn't a fool. He may be lazy and have lapses of judgement, but he isn't a fool.

I get the impression that Hannan and Johnson have been been told to get with the programme. "Here are your new scripts. Stick to them if you know what's good for you. And by the way, nobody cares what you think, so no more rocking the boat. This is serious".




Yes ... it is almost as if they've been told "playtime over", and called into class to recite their lessons.

vincent
#12 Posted : 04 December 2012 15:31:58(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
"I don’t understand why we continually urge the eurozone countries to go forward with this fiscal and political union, when we know in our hearts that it is anti-democratic and therefore intellectually and morally wrong," he said.


One wonders as well whether Johnson sees the threat, via the above statement, that a new treaty which moves the Eurozone towards its intentional destination, of Britain being pushed out of the EU as a consequence.



Does he actually read his own words!.I find that a startling confession,is he not saying Cameron/Osborne are wrong here,since the mantra had been that the EU must sort out its own problems and the only way to do that is to integrate even more.Boris just contradicts that policy line right there...or was it a Freudian slip?

You just cannot take a Tory's word anymore.RollEyes

vincent
#13 Posted : 04 December 2012 15:47:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: aster Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
In the wake of Rodney Leach's initiative yesterday, to have Boris Johnson today coming up with virtually the same agenda is not a coincidence.

This is part of the three-legged europhile strategy that we saw emerging last month as an antidote to euroscepticism and the "out" movement. We can call this the "Reform-Renegotiate-Scare" (RRS) strategy.

Johnson, like Leach, is running the Tory-inspired "renegotiate" leg, speaking at a Thomson Reuters "Newsmaker" event in London. He is another one pretending that Britain can renegotiate a relationship with the EU, this time with the idea that we could cut back our involvement to "the single market only".

View full article here



Seems to me that what is exercising Boris is the prospect of the City losing Euro business. The French (Noyer) are making rude noises, but the real threat is perhaps Germany having now adopted the Euro as the new Deutschmark and their determination to handle all Euro business in Frankfurt.

That would fit with Germany's more than a century of playing beggar my neighbour with currencies, inflations and even the Weimar collapse - determined not to pay a penny of the Versailles settlement. Okay, I know you are laughing, but...

Germany was even more horribly humiliated after the 2nd World War, even by the Americans, who much prefer the Germans to the French (who doesn't?)

Max Kaiser says he has moved his programme base from Paris to London, because "Germany has declared war on London" and his expectation is that the City will be demolished within 18 months (I'll post the link if anyone wants it)

Both the US and Europe have been happy for 100 years to have all their currency dirty work offshored to London, but as Mervyn King reminds us "banks are global until they fail, then they are national." Boris and Dave want it every way - Euro corporate statism plus City criminal profits and supremacy. Boris is mumbling because he can't get his head round it.

Thank you Richard for the reform-renegotiate scare piece, which leaves my persistent mild depression intact. And for allowing me to air my mad theory.


Interesting post...Ill have a gander at your link.Thanking you in anticipation.

aster
#14 Posted : 04 December 2012 16:20:23(UTC)
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Here's the link Vincent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdMEM53SafI

Its Max Keiser speaking at Westminster (invited and introduced by George Galloway) around 24th November.

There's some intro/clips/music at the start, it loads well, so you can pull ahead of them to the meeting.
It would be interesting to hear your impressions.
In2minds
#15 Posted : 04 December 2012 16:39:44(UTC)
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Richard wrote -

Quote:
Farage might have charisma, but Johnson is easily his match –



There are also similarities, Farage will make mistakes, big ones, Johnson will make gaffes too and in his usual lucky manner will hope to glide over them. This time around it might not happen as I think it all depends on what Johnson wants to do next.

I don't think he wants to be PM, just likes the buzz of being more popular than Cameron. And for all his political skills he is an even better writer. Being a writer post-politics will earn him vast amounts of money and be fun.

I predict he eventually will be bored and drop out of this campaign role. At this point, with his second and
final (?) term as Mayor coming to an end, he will revert to being original Boris. And then in this phase
he might be more use to the opposition than Cameron, ha, ha!
Bandit 1
#16 Posted : 04 December 2012 17:23:27(UTC)
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I always wonder what the people at these things do for brains, or perhaps more exactly what they do for information. Those at today's hot-air-fest are 'news people', supposedly: well-paid and 'in touch'. So how is it that a Joe-job pleb like me can be SO much better informed about the EU and about politics generally than them? (cf. business 'leaders'). I know I read EURef, but I mean!

It's like being trapped in a B-movie. What will it take for the sheriff to acknowledge the Martians doing a tap dance on his front lawn?
ELF
#17 Posted : 04 December 2012 17:51:53(UTC)
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There may be useful idiots in the ranks who know no better, but I’d say the tory leadership is deliberately taking a dive. Pursuing a strategy that they know will fail, when there is a viable strategy available. They should be publicly called out on this in advance. But without media access, how ?
richard
#18 Posted : 04 December 2012 17:56:20(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: aster Go to Quoted Post
Here's the link Vincent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdMEM53SafI

Its Max Keiser speaking at Westminster (invited and introduced by George Galloway) around 24th November.

There's some intro/clips/music at the start, it loads well, so you can pull ahead of them to the meeting.
It would be interesting to hear your impressions.




I started watching it. In one of my earlier posts, I advised readers that I was conscious of how stupid and ignorant Americans often come over when they try to analyse British politics. I think Keiser comes into that category ... certainly, he doesn't "get" the EU.



thespecialone
#19 Posted : 04 December 2012 18:11:52(UTC)
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At last. Something that will make swathes of the population not interested in how the EU affects them, sit up and notice!

http://www.dailymail.co....on-theyre-deep-debt.html
Ravenscar
#20 Posted : 04 December 2012 19:00:58(UTC)
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Quote:
At last. Something that will make swathes of the population not interested in how the EU affects them, sit up and notice!


Ye Gods and hells teeth! Alack, is there no one wiv wads and able to come to their rescue - can't the IMF lend 'em a few hundred thousand more where's the comradeship, comrades?


On the other hand like with the EU as a whole, similarly as with the song contest - when I was a child - I used to think - we've got the best here in Britain whether it was pop music or armed forces - then WTF did we need Europe for?

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