EURef Forum
»
Blog Comments
»
Blog
»
EU regulations: the wrong model for pesticides
Rank: Administration
Groups: Registered, Administrators Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,035 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Bradford Thanks: 97 times Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
|
Protagonists in the Article 50 "debate" – and one in particular – airily suggest that, in declaring UDI overnight, we can tear up all the EU "rules and regulations". Then, presumably, we all march forward to the deregulated sunlit uplands where our newly resurgent industries can bask in their unaccustomed freedom, thus heralding a new era of unencumbered prosperity. In the real world, however, things are not quite so simple. To take just fishing, having conducted with Owen Paterson our own exercise in formulating a replacement fishing policy, it took two years of almost continuous labour to produce a draft consultation document, setting out the basic principles which needed to be considered in a new policy. On the basis of this experience, we conservatively estimate that it would take at least five years to work up a policy to replace the Common Fisheries Policy, and another five years fully to implement it. View full article here
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 115 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Coventry Thanks: 12 times Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 6 post(s)
|
Over-regulation started in the Middle Ages when council jobsworths tested the quality of beer by donning a pair of lederhosen and seeing if they would stick to a wooden bench. As for banning chalk in bread, red lead in Gloucester cheese and recycling tea leaves with sheep manure, that was Victorian 'elf 'n safety gone mad. |
Nothing is impossible so long as everybody does exactly what I tell them. |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 197 Location: midlands
Thanks: 5 times Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
|
Richard wrote - Quote:Our officials have lost their ability to think independently, and slavishly follow the rules. So as I see it not only do we have timorous officials but badly educated ones too. Hence the fact it will take years to disentangle ourselves from the EU is no bad thing as we then have time to improve the education of our public servants.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Registered, Administrators Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,035 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Bradford Thanks: 97 times Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: In2minds  Richard wrote - Quote:Our officials have lost their ability to think independently, and slavishly follow the rules. So as I see it not only do we have timorous officials but badly educated ones too. Hence the fact it will take years to disentangle ourselves from the EU is no bad thing as we then have time to improve the education of our public servants. In my view, that is one of the crucial issues. Our public officials need to re-learn the art of regulation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 77 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Cumbria Thanks: 2 times Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: richard  Originally Posted by: In2minds  Richard wrote - Quote:Our officials have lost their ability to think independently, and slavishly follow the rules. So as I see it not only do we have timorous officials but badly educated ones too. Hence the fact it will take years to disentangle ourselves from the EU is no bad thing as we then have time to improve the education of our public servants. In my view, that is one of the crucial issues. Our public officials need to re-learn the art of regulation. I think our officials need to learn a few things in the first instance. I know not everything would be instantly fixed by harrogate, but at least those who make the decision (the people) are those who will have to pay the price for failure. It sickens me that politicians can **** everything up, then leave office Scott free, whilst we have to pay the price for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 918 Location: The North
Thanks: 113 times Was thanked: 129 time(s) in 88 post(s)
|
Is it not time for the British government to place and rank the priorities of the British people above those of the EU which of 40 years, they have deemed did transcend Briton's rights and those of the national interest. And is the British government actually practicing apartheid against it's own people?
Oh indeed they are.
On pesticides:
Turn the tables, ban them [neonicotinoids] and let it be known that all such chemically similar pesticides will be so banned. Furthermore that it is incumbent upon the product manufactures to be able to prove via empirical field and laboratory testing that they are harmless to pollinators.
On the UDI thing,
It's half a dozen versus 50% x twelve.
You may think contemptuously of this Richard but the objective imho is not insurmountable - if there is a will.
I think the middle road is the way - and we seemed to manage OK after the war - post war - there weren't many rools and regs then. If we put up barriers and think the job is too great - then we'll never commence what is necessary - people adapt quickly - that's how we have survived by thinking on our feet. OK, there will be some almighty cock-ups but if we are our own masters once more - then destiny is at least in our own hands - and responsibility which has become a dying art [all we need to do is to craft a big navy and armed forces].
What is needed is a simplification of all the complexity of so many statutes and bureaucratic red tape.
I personally would very much like to see the BSI standard reintroduced - it was infinitely superior to the CE mark - which to be perfectly frank legitimises mostly worthless trash - see French Breast implants or just inspect the worse than bog standard electrical sockets and fittings and there are so many others.
|
 1 user thanked Ravenscar for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 77 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Cumbria Thanks: 2 times Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: Ravenscar  I personally would very much like to see the BSI standard reintroduced - it was infinitely superior to the CE mark - which to be perfectly frank legitimises mostly worthless trash
we often joke at work that the CE mark, means "Check Everything", it would be a good joke, but sadly it is no joke at all its very true.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 324 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Thanks: 1 times Was thanked: 39 time(s) in 25 post(s)
|
Quote:Similarly, there are thousands of technical areas of regulation which need addressing, where you cannot simply tear up the existing regulations. What would be done about medical devices, for instance? Would it be safe to remove regulation here, so that there are no statutory requirements for things like heart valves? Umm.... I think the proposal is NOT to tear up all existing regulations. That would be a stupid thing to do even if the EU were nothing to do with the process. The problem, as you have summarised in your piece, is that when we find a regulation not fitting our requirements very well, we are unable to unilaterally alter it because it proceeds from 'Europe'. And the answer would seem to be that, as and when we leave Europe, we will leave it retaining all the EU regulations. Then, gradually, as we find a regulation not fitting our requirements, we will consider changing it. This consideration will probably include the possible effect of trade with EU partners if the regulation is trade-critical. But the point is that it will be up to US to decide whether to take a trade hit, negotiate some middle way, or stick with the regulation. As far as I know, no one is really proposing that we unilaterally abrogate ALL EU regulations, whether we agree with them or not. Though that might be a debating call occasionally to whip up an audience, such a course would obviously cause massive disruption and confusion, and could never be in our best interests...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/11/2012(UTC) Posts: 101 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Lancashire Thanks: 64 times Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: J A King  Originally Posted by: Ravenscar  I personally would very much like to see the BSI standard reintroduced - it was infinitely superior to the CE mark - which to be perfectly frank legitimises mostly worthless trash
we often joke at work that the CE mark, means "Check Everything", it would be a good joke, but sadly it is no joke at all its very true. The purpose of a CE mark is to discourage on the hoof designs getting anywhere near the market therby eliminating competition, have you checked the cost of getting one. It's just another method of big established business keeping thier advantage. I can't, unfortunately offer a solution to this connundrum but I do recognise it. A good deal of regulation we find ourselves subject to have been lobbied for by vested interest big business.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/11/2012(UTC) Posts: 101 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Lancashire Thanks: 64 times Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: Dodgy Geezer  Quote:Similarly, there are thousands of technical areas of regulation which need addressing, where you cannot simply tear up the existing regulations. What would be done about medical devices, for instance? Would it be safe to remove regulation here, so that there are no statutory requirements for things like heart valves? Umm.... I think the proposal is NOT to tear up all existing regulations. That would be a stupid thing to do even if the EU were nothing to do with the process. The problem, as you have summarised in your piece, is that when we find a regulation not fitting our requirements very well, we are unable to unilaterally alter it because it proceeds from 'Europe'. And the answer would seem to be that, as and when we leave Europe, we will leave it retaining all the EU regulations. Then, gradually, as we find a regulation not fitting our requirements, we will consider changing it. This consideration will probably include the possible effect of trade with EU partners if the regulation is trade-critical. But the point is that it will be up to US to decide whether to take a trade hit, negotiate some middle way, or stick with the regulation. As far as I know, no one is really proposing that we unilaterally abrogate ALL EU regulations, whether we agree with them or not. Though that might be a debating call occasionally to whip up an audience, such a course would obviously cause massive disruption and confusion, and could never be in our best interests... " is that when we find a regulation not fitting our requirements very well" The burning question would be who is "our" A lot of legislation that is not in our interest would be perceived by the government as in "it's interest. Care of our monumental democratic deficit the regulation would be retained.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 13 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: France Thanks: 1 times Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
"Outside the EU, of course, there is no certainty that things would be better, But they certainly could be no worse." Whether they get better or worse, they should be made so by our own efforts and actions, not some eurocrat's.
|
 1 user thanked Peter Melia for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 918 Location: The North
Thanks: 113 times Was thanked: 129 time(s) in 88 post(s)
|
Quote:The purpose of a CE mark is to discourage on the hoof designs getting anywhere near the market therby eliminating competition, have you checked the cost of getting one. It's just another method of big established business keeping thier advantage. I can't, unfortunately offer a solution to this connundrum but I do recognise it. A good deal of regulation we find ourselves subject to have been lobbied for by vested interest big business. Big business er global conglomerates, they love the EU and it if it were possible in an impossible world - even more than the EU, corporates love lots of regulations. Why? Because [as we all know well on this blog] - it prevents, stops, stymies just about all the competition. Ah yes that word...... Competition - now let me see - wasn't that what all the fuss was about in the first place [Common Market = free trade 'n' all that stuff - what a joke and a half that is]?? Should I.......... have said cartel instead? Competition.......... from the blokes trying to get a look in - ie the little boys - the people, who in our [the British] economy our Chancellor of the Exchequer depends upon - you see - they actually pay [some] taxes, unlike the corporate great whites.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 324 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Thanks: 1 times Was thanked: 39 time(s) in 25 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: flyinthesky  " is that when we find a regulation not fitting our requirements very well" The burning question would be who is "our" A lot of legislation that is not in our interest would be perceived by the government as in "it's interest. Care of our monumental democratic deficit the regulation would be retained.
No one ever said that leaving the EU would bring heaven on earth. You are quite right that our current governments are oppressive and need to be overthrown. But once we were out the government would not have the excuse that they could not do anything about those regulations which were causing us difficulty...
|
 1 user thanked Dodgy Geezer for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 349 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Peterlee Thanks: 14 times Was thanked: 23 time(s) in 21 post(s)
|
BSI had already been infiltrated before CE became the standard.
I can't remember the actual number, just that it was in the 9xxx range. It was virtually a standard that said...
"I will tell you what I'm going to give you".
A roll your own BSI standard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 349 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Peterlee Thanks: 14 times Was thanked: 23 time(s) in 21 post(s)
|
Another O/T sort of... Dunno
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 918 Location: The North
Thanks: 113 times Was thanked: 129 time(s) in 88 post(s)
|
O/T as well, mea culpa - but some trouble in your neck of the woods in Wibsey tonight Dr. N? A very sad case indeed, one sort of local yobbery which that, despite police protestations to the contrary we've heard many examples of just recently. Though I must be careful here not to intrude on some families very private and terrible grief, this is occurring all over the country, not only are the elderly neglected and abused in state institutions they are also preyed upon in their 'castles'. God in heaven, truly do I despair, R.I.P. Mrs Moulson. Edited by user 29 November 2012 00:12:52(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Registered, Administrators Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,035 ![United Kingdom United Kingdom]() Location: Bradford Thanks: 97 times Was thanked: 306 time(s) in 255 post(s)
|
Originally Posted by: Ravenscar  O/T as well, mea culpa - but some trouble in your neck of the woods in Wibsey tonight Dr. N? A very sad case indeed, one sort of local yobbery which that, despite police protestations to the contrary we've heard many examples of just recently. Though I must be careful here not to intrude on some families very private and terrible grief, this is occurring all over the country, not only are the elderly neglected and abused in state institutions they are also preyed upon in their 'castles'. God in heaven, truly do I despair, R.I.P. Mrs Moulson. On my doorstep ... five minutes walk from me ... and I need you to tell me! And here we have Mr Plod: 'Det Ch Insp Simon Atkinson said: "We will not tolerate anti-social behaviour at any level in Bradford and we are determined to bring those responsible to justice."' Yeah, right! So rare are police patrols that when we see police on the streets, we all stop to look in amazement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 918 Location: The North
Thanks: 113 times Was thanked: 129 time(s) in 88 post(s)
|
Quote:Yeah, right! So rare are police patrols that when we see police on the streets, we all stop to look in amazement. It is the same over here Richard, occasionally you may see in the town centre a PCSO during the day time - wrong time, wrong area - you never see a copper at night. New York put coppers back on the streets - it worked but they had to recruit thousands of extra officers of course and pursue a zero tolerance policy................no chance in Britain because protecting the public from street crime, petty burglary and low level intimidation: is not the ACPO and police service remit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EURef Forum
»
Blog Comments
»
Blog
»
EU regulations: the wrong model for pesticides
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.