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richard
#1 Posted : 21 November 2012 16:40:12(UTC)
Richard

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It is worth revisiting the essence of the David Davis speech on renegotiating with the EU, in order to put it alongside this piece from the Economist.

Addressing the idea of Britain trying to create an à la carte membership, the magazine notes that several factors are reducing Britain's bargaining power:

First is the accumulated resentment of past battles. Second, Germany may feel less necessity to keep the British in, now that their troops no longer defend its borders. Third, unlike Britain, most of the outs want to stick close to the euro zone. Fourth, a looming Brixit makes even friendly countries less willing to line up with the Brits. Most important, most leaders think resolving the euro crisis must take priority over British demands - and they resent Britain's attempts to exploit the euro crisis for its own ends.

View full article here
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john in cheshire on 21/11/2012(UTC)
arthurshovel
#2 Posted : 21 November 2012 16:49:12(UTC)
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Hell Richard, you would get killed in the rush!
theenglishpainter
#3 Posted : 21 November 2012 17:01:30(UTC)
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What????
And have a Conservative Party Conference in Harrogate!!
Luv to see that!!

BigGrin
David Coe
#4 Posted : 21 November 2012 17:06:52(UTC)
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"That would be an extremely brave decision Prime Minister" advised Sir Humphrey. Somehow, I don't think Dave does brave.
richard
#5 Posted : 21 November 2012 17:09:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: David Coe Go to Quoted Post
"That would be an extremely brave decision Prime Minister" advised Sir Humphrey. Somehow, I don't think Dave does brave.



Who dares wins?
William F
#6 Posted : 21 November 2012 17:33:41(UTC)
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Hell! Even I would vote for them if they did that.

I'd even rejoin the electoral roll.
J A King
#7 Posted : 21 November 2012 17:42:29(UTC)
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I am sorry to bring you all back to reality, but there is as much chance of Cast Iron Dave. doing that, as there is of a long lost dodo making love to a mammoth to create a whole new species.


But yeah, if they did i would vote like that too
Ravenscar
#8 Posted : 21 November 2012 18:06:09(UTC)
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Quote:

Hell! Even I would vote for them if they did that.


Vote Tory and on a renegotiation ticket which required Britain to remain in the EU - albeit on more favourable terms?


I thought that you wanted to invoke Article 50 - to facilitate and expedite Britain's total withdrawal from the EU - ie: trade yes but no to political input or Brussels influence whatsoever and as it always was before 1972.

Have I completely misread and misunderstood your intentions Richard?
stuart
#9 Posted : 21 November 2012 18:32:02(UTC)
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With appropriate time limits on actions with a manifesto commitment to immediately call an election if the limits lapse? We want it in blood Richard following previous performance.
J A King
#10 Posted : 21 November 2012 18:32:39(UTC)
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Not 100% sure, but there is nothing stopping them doing it before the next election is there, why enter an election on a "cast iron" promise no one believes, when you can just do it now and be done with it. This would not break the "referendum lock" as no powers would go out, they would only come in.
John Archer
#11 Posted : 21 November 2012 19:09:57(UTC)
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richard wrote:
All they would need to do would be to commit to invoking Article 50....

I agree with J A King on this one — just do it.

A tory commitment means nothing. They debased that currency long ago. Forget it. It's do it now while they're in power or nothing. Meanwhile, and instead, they can have my "cast iron" promise that I'll vote for them at the next election if they do as I wish. There's no other way they'll get it.

That's the deal. They can take it or leave it. It's their turn to take the risk on doing the trust thing.


Fuck 'em.
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silverfox on 21/11/2012(UTC)
richard
#12 Posted : 21 November 2012 20:04:31(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ravenscar Go to Quoted Post



I thought that you wanted to invoke Article 50 - to facilitate and expedite Britain's total withdrawal from the EU - ie: trade yes but no to political input or Brussels influence whatsoever and as it always was before 1972.

Have I completely misread and misunderstood your intentions Richard?





Have I said anything different? Article 50 requires that we give notice of withdrawal.

However, we can't go back to 1972, unless you have a time machine. We go forward (because time does that) and deal with the political situation as it is now, not as it was 40 years ago. And that does mean coming to terms with a very large political bloc on our doorstep.

silverfox
#13 Posted : 21 November 2012 20:19:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: J A King Go to Quoted Post
I am sorry to bring you all back to reality, but there is as much chance of Cast Iron Dave. doing that, as there is of a long lost dodo making love to a mammoth to create a whole new species.


But yeah, if they did i would vote like that too


Well said!
'Cast Iron Dave', assuming he survives as leader, cannot ever be trusted again.
He is rapidly building the usual Politicians catalogue of broken promises and deceit
so typical of those in 'high office'.
Aurelian
#14 Posted : 21 November 2012 20:28:30(UTC)
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Dr North wrote:
Even I would vote for them if they did that.
I wouldn't.
I simply don't believe a word they say any more.
They forfeited all credibility years ago -- Westminster weasels, the lot of them.

Please hold: your call is important to us.
Dave Evans
#15 Posted : 21 November 2012 20:28:58(UTC)
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Eleven words I never thought I'd see on EURef.
Quote:
Hell! Even I would vote for them if they did that.


Originally Posted by: stuart Go to Quoted Post
With appropriate time limits on actions with a manifesto commitment to immediately call an election if the limits lapse? We want it in blood Richard following previous performance.


How about an electronic tag with a shaped charge built in around his neck?
cjw1954
#16 Posted : 21 November 2012 20:45:41(UTC)
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It's in both sides' interest to change the relationship without changing the situation. Our glorious leaders are scared stiff they might have to run the country again rather than just open the post and start inquiries into all and sundry. I'm assuming that the EU would still like to sell BMWs to our police service, and hang on to our utilities, railways and the bits of UK manufacturing they haven't yet moved to the continent. The only loss to them would be the annual subscription to the French farmers' hardship fund, otherwise known as our budget contribution - and I'm sure they would still want some of that in the same way they charge Norway for the privilege of "accessing" the protectionist racket known as the Single Market. That amount could be quite high and pitched to the voters as necessary to avoid the "disaster" (did you hear Ken Clarke and Humphreys agreeing with each other on that word the other morning?) associated with cutting all ties with the corpse formerly known as the EU. Think of it as "Technically, we're leaving but we're not really and we've got the best possible deal so everyone can be happy" Who knows - there may still be jobs for the boys available as someone will have to liaise with (suck up to) Euroland?
mosquito
#17 Posted : 21 November 2012 20:46:12(UTC)
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So, we have three parties none of whom wish to leave. A civil service which does not wish to leave. A political/media class whcih does not want to leave, an EU which might consider us inconvenient but want our money and access to our labour market.

How did it even get on the agenda, never mind being thought of as a possibility? I don't buy it. The only explanation is that we the rest of us want to leave and are being thrown a bone. They want us to shut up and wait. There is no story here. Eventually the ones who sold us down the river will do anything to make sure we are still sold. And they will say anything to convince us we are going to get what we want.
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aster on 06/12/2012(UTC)
richard
#18 Posted : 21 November 2012 21:29:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dave Evans Go to Quoted Post
Eleven words I never thought I'd see on EURef.
Quote:
Hell! Even I would vote for them if they did that.


Originally Posted by: stuart Go to Quoted Post
With appropriate time limits on actions with a manifesto commitment to immediately call an election if the limits lapse? We want it in blood Richard following previous performance.


How about an electronic tag with a shaped charge built in around his neck?



Something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4K4xbyRMIM
Dave Evans
#19 Posted : 21 November 2012 21:38:03(UTC)
Dave Evans

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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dave Evans Go to Quoted Post
Eleven words I never thought I'd see on EURef.
Quote:
Hell! Even I would vote for them if they did that.


Originally Posted by: stuart Go to Quoted Post
With appropriate time limits on actions with a manifesto commitment to immediately call an election if the limits lapse? We want it in blood Richard following previous performance.


How about an electronic tag with a shaped charge built in around his neck?



Something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4K4xbyRMIM


Damn. Someone else thought of it first. Mad
Dave Evans
#20 Posted : 21 November 2012 21:44:50(UTC)
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Been thinking.

An elaboration on the exploding collar. Every MP has one fitted and once they get more than 70% negative votes from their constituents...Angry
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