I very much doubt the British electorate will ever be given the chance to vote on a straight in or out referendum.

If something was put to a vote we can be sure the question will be loaded in favour of staying in the EU. We can also be sure the whole of the EU bureaucracy and their fellow travellers such as the BBC and fake charities would campaign for a stay in vote. The voting age would be reduced to include school children on the grounds that it's their future at stake. Any TV reports on the out campaign would be accompanied by images of trains to concentration camps and films of black and asians being deported.

If an out campaign was led by white males it would be doomed from the start. For the last 50 years the state has laid all the problems (as defined by them) of the UK and the world as the product of allowing white men to rule. All the institutions that defined what it meant to be British have been broken and cast aside.

In world terms we are ruled by a regional bureaucracy who demand conformity and uniformity, and they decide what those two terms mean.

What the bureaucracy cannot tolerate is transparency, seeing their inner wheeling and dealing and the corruption that goes hand in hand with it. For me the way to destroy this evil empire is through exposure. For a start we must not allow the BBC to escape from any responsibility for the behaviour of Jim Savile. He was very much part, and typical of, the BBC culture of breaking the family and sexual taboos.

I agree the biggest problem is the loading of the question and undoubtedly a lot rigging for an in vote in the guise of 'renegotiation'. But we're not without advantages ourselves. I think the lowering of the voting age 'trick' is largely a red herring. I don't think it's a given that they are all pro-EU (I can't as yet find any reliable polling data on this). But going by Scotland's Independence experience, it's reported that it would only make a 0.2% difference if that - probably why Cameron agreed to it - and this discussion below on Monday with 16/17 year olds showed a mixed bag of opinions for and against Scottish Independence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ipl...oosing_Scotlands_Future/

I can't see it being any different on the question of EU membership.

Then we also have advantages over 1975. The most obvious one being the internet. No longer will the established media have a monopoly on the message; the battle will be fought as well on social media, forums and mumsnet. Look how Cameron's traditional 'poster' campaign spectacularly backfired before 2010 election.

The EU can no longer be dismissed as a 'benign common market', it's true purpose is obvious even more so if a new treaty is proposed for further integration - that would be harder to argue for. Then the referendum will take place inevitable against the backdrop of a Eurocrisis, which will be even worse, and probably against Cameron which means in part it will be a referendum on him as a leader. Chuck immigration in as well linking it to the EU and we've got a potent mix.

We also have a secret weapon that goes by the name of the charmless John Hirst - he should shipped out as often as possible to make his case for staying in and his 'uman rights'.

Our Achilles heel, aside from loaded questions, is a lack of organisation on our part - the out campaign is likely to suffer from a rabble of vested interests that knows not where it's going. If a referendum is coming (and it looks like it is) we have to play the cards we're dealt, be prepared with a tightly focused campaign that takes a leaf out of Obama's book on raising huge amounts of money by small donations from millions. That way we may be in with a chance.

Edited by user 09 November 2012 11:11:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Exactly....... is that an "out" from the EU single market and the EU or just "out" of the EU but in EFTA.Might have a few scratching their heads but it might also make some people go out and find more about what is actually going on here.But it is a very clumsy question

Edited by user 09 November 2012 12:00:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

'If' our so called betters do decide to give us a referendum, as mentioned many times before, the question(s) will be loaded.

So, I guess it will be a choice of between: EU Max or EU Lite *

* ie same as now, with an odd bone thrown in.

Some choice !