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richard
#1 Posted : 16 August 2012 13:46:48(UTC)
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Headlined in Handelsblatt (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states.



Read here...

http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048
rosie
#2 Posted : 16 August 2012 14:23:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Headlined in <i>Handelsblatt</i> (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states. Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048



Dr North, can you please explain why the EU want a fiscal union and a monetary one. I know fiscal is public revenue, monetary is coinage, but in the scheme of things within the EU all public money should be theirs, so why are they wanting separate unions, unless I've read it wrong, which is easily done on all things EU.

I've been confused for a while on this but didn't want to ask, showing my ignorance, but it's getting the better of me now, so what the heck, I'll let my ignorance be known by all. Confused

TheBoilingFrog
#3 Posted : 16 August 2012 14:40:58(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rosie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Headlined in <i>Handelsblatt</i> (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states. Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048



Dr North, can you please explain why the EU want a fiscal union and a monetary one. I know fiscal is public revenue, monetary is coinage, but in the scheme of things within the EU all public money should be theirs, so why are they wanting separate unions, unless I've read it wrong, which is easily done on all things EU.

I've been confused for a while on this but didn't want to ask, showing my ignorance, but it's getting the better of me now, so what the heck, I'll let my ignorance be known by all. Confused



The EU wants both...to facilitate full political Union. Normally for a successful economic union you start off with political / fiscal union first then proceed with monetary union, or do both at the same time. The EU quite deliberately put the cart before the horse - thus creating the current flaw in the currency. This inevitably would lead to a series of crisis (by design) where the solution would always by 'more Europe' at each step thus moving towards full political union via the back door by 'salami tactics' - or that was the intention.
richard
#4 Posted : 16 August 2012 14:47:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rosie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Headlined in <i>Handelsblatt</i> (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states. Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048



Dr North, can you please explain why the EU want a fiscal union and a monetary one. I know fiscal is public revenue, monetary is coinage, but in the scheme of things within the EU all public money should be theirs, so why are they wanting separate unions, unless I've read it wrong, which is easily done on all things EU.

I've been confused for a while on this but didn't want to ask, showing my ignorance, but it's getting the better of me now, so what the heck, I'll let my ignorance be known by all. Confused



Fiscal policy covers government taxation and expenditure ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_policy

Monetary policy is the process by which the monetary authority of a country controls the supply of money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_policy

To have control over the economy, you need control of both ... hence monetary union followed by fiscal union.

vincent
#5 Posted : 16 August 2012 15:49:10(UTC)
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Great post,seems the ECB is now under the microscope along side those German politicians.

ECB has no independence,to call it so is a travesty.Yet we find it repeated over and over in the ECB policy document I looked at last night.


http://www.ecb.eu/pub/pd...monetarypolicy2011en.pdf

Quote:
The institutional framework of
the single monetary policy is based
on two fundamental principles that
are indispensable for sound monetary
policy-making. First, the central
bank’s mandate shall focus clearly and
unambiguously on maintaining price
stability. Second, the central bank shall
be independent.


That bit was written by Jurgen Stark who has since resigned over the ECBs bond buying exercises...so at least someone has principles here.

Then we get under a side headed "Arrangements
for sound fiscal policies"......



Quote:
Fiscal policies have a significant impact
on economic growth, macroeconomic
stability and inflation. A number of
institutional arrangements for sound
fiscal policies have been agreed at the
EU level, also with a view to limiting
risks to price stability (see Box 2.1).
These include:
• the prohibition of monetary financing
(Article 123 of the TFEU);
• the prohibition of privileged access
to financial institutions (Article 124
of the TFEU);
• the no-bail-out clause (Article 125 of
the TFEU);
• the fiscal provisions for avoiding
excessive government deficits
(Article 126 of the TFEU, which
also sets out the excessive deficit
procedure);
• the Stability and Growth Pact
(secondary legislation based on
Articles 121 and 126 of the TFEU).


These are not monetary policies,the ECB is getting its fingers involves in fiscal policy..and does not even deny it.

I read a few days ago that the BoE is having a big debate about whether it should in fact buy private bonds in addition to government bonds,meanwhile the ECB is gayly enforcing controls on government spending and deficit limits.Mervy King would dream of such power.Drool

Edited by user 16 August 2012 15:50:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

vincent
#6 Posted : 16 August 2012 16:05:50(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rosie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Headlined in <i>Handelsblatt</i> (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states. Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048



Dr North, can you please explain why the EU want a fiscal union and a monetary one. I know fiscal is public revenue, monetary is coinage, but in the scheme of things within the EU all public money should be theirs, so why are they wanting separate unions, unless I've read it wrong, which is easily done on all things EU.

I've been confused for a while on this but didn't want to ask, showing my ignorance, but it's getting the better of me now, so what the heck, I'll let my ignorance be known by all. Confused



Took me a while to fathom it too......if this helps, any government can effect its economy using either fiscal or monetary means.They can use one or both at the same time if they like.Thats is no problem for a sovereign state,the government of the day decides which is best to achieve its policies.If it wants to use monetary policy(mainly setting ineterst rate to inflate/deflate the economy)it would ask the central bank to act accordingly and either flood the market with cheap money(lower interst rates) or withdraw some by putting up the interest rate.(Though this is a very basic version)The Central bank has a duty to follow orders from a democratically elected gov....Blair gave the BoE a free hand to do this without political interference, which was always considered a problem.

That should be the limit of a central banks duties.The EZ is a different case though,they have separate govs each deciding on fiscal tax and spend policies but all under the one currency.They really needed to be singing from the same hymn sheet on that but did not do that at the beginning when the euro was created....now they are trying to close the door after that particular horse has bolted.
But to have a situation where the central bank actually tells any government what to do on fiscal policy(tax and spending levels)is an anathema to proper democratic accountablity....which is the position the ECB has found itself in.

Edited by user 16 August 2012 16:08:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

letmethink
#7 Posted : 16 August 2012 16:46:46(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Headlined in <i>Handelsblatt</i> (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states. Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048


I agree that the remit of the ESCB in general and the ECB in particular are wider than is generally reported. Article 13 certainly seems to suggest that as part of the EU Institution architecture it is bound by the rule of those institutions but doesn't Article 130 (seemingly lifted verbatim from the Treaty of Rome) appear to contradict this: -

"When exercising the powers and carrying out the tasks and duties conferred upon them by the Treaties and the Statute of the ESCB and of the ECB, neither the European Central Bank, nor a national central bank, nor any member of their decision-making bodies shall seek or take instructions from Union institutions, bodies, offices or agencies, from any government of a Member State or from any other body."
letmethink
#8 Posted : 16 August 2012 17:35:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vincent Go to Quoted Post


I read a few days ago that the BoE is having a big debate about whether it should in fact buy private bonds in addition to government bonds . . .


The Bank of England always has engaged in private business. This is entirely opaque to us as it is one of the areas of their operation not covered by the FOIA.
richard
#9 Posted : 16 August 2012 17:49:27(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: letmethink Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Headlined in <i>Handelsblatt</i> (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states. Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048


I agree that the remit of the ESCB in general and the ECB in particular are wider than is generally reported. Article 13 certainly seems to suggest that as part of the EU Institution architecture it is bound by the rule of those institutions but doesn't Article 130 (seemingly lifted verbatim from the Treaty of Rome) appear to contradict this: -

"When exercising the powers and carrying out the tasks and duties conferred upon them by the Treaties and the Statute of the ESCB and of the ECB, neither the European Central Bank, nor a national central bank, nor any member of their decision-making bodies shall seek or take instructions from Union institutions, bodies, offices or agencies, from any government of a Member State or from any other body."




Perhaps you would like to distinguish between "instructions" and "guidance"? More seriously, the "instructions" are set out in the treaty, which forms part of the ECB mandate. One of the primary objectives of the ECB, therefore, is to advance the objectives of the Union, and there would be nothing to stop the commission guiding the ECB as to what those objectives might be. Failure for the ECB to conform with the provisions of Art. 13 are, to my understanding, justiciable in the ECJ, which further adds to the pressure.
vincent
#10 Posted : 16 August 2012 17:55:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: letmethink Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vincent Go to Quoted Post


I read a few days ago that the BoE is having a big debate about whether it should in fact buy private bonds in addition to government bonds . . .


The Bank of England always has engaged in private business. This is entirely opaque to us as it is one of the areas of their operation not covered by the FOIA.


Do tell?

Not the Bank of England Nominees Limited by any chance?
vincent
#11 Posted : 16 August 2012 18:01:34(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: letmethink Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Headlined in <i>Handelsblatt</i> (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states. Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048


I agree that the remit of the ESCB in general and the ECB in particular are wider than is generally reported. Article 13 certainly seems to suggest that as part of the EU Institution architecture it is bound by the rule of those institutions but doesn't Article 130 (seemingly lifted verbatim from the Treaty of Rome) appear to contradict this: -

"When exercising the powers and carrying out the tasks and duties conferred upon them by the Treaties and the Statute of the ESCB and of the ECB, neither the European Central Bank, nor a national central bank, nor any member of their decision-making bodies shall seek or take instructions from Union institutions, bodies, offices or agencies, from any government of a Member State or from any other body."


Yes that looks lovely...but then that is written in entirely for PR purposes...bears no resemblance to what is actually happening..

Quote:
A YEAR ago this week Italy’s prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, received a terse letter from two men who held his country’s fate in their hands: Jean-Claude Trichet, the-then president of the European Central Bank (ECB), and the man who has since taken over the job, Mario Draghi (then governor of Italy’s central bank). It contained a list of measures Italy had to adopt urgently, from budget-cutting to structural reforms, to regain the trust of investors who were dumping Italian bonds. Mr Berlusconi began to comply and, though the bargain was never explicit, the ECB began buying its bonds to bring down Italy’s borrowing costs. But no a sooner had market pressure on Italy relaxed a bit than Mr Berlusconi started to backtrack.


Funnily enough the ECB then stopped buying Italian bonds and they rose dramatically before Berlusconi relented.


http://www.economist.com...2/08/ecb-and-euro-crisis

Edited by user 16 August 2012 18:04:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

letmethink
#12 Posted : 16 August 2012 18:21:19(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: letmethink Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Headlined in <i>Handelsblatt</i> (but nowhere else that I have seen), is a call for "radical restructuring" of the ECB.

The report starts by telling us that preservation of price stability is "the core mission of the European Central Bank (ECB)". But the debt crisis has changed its role, forcing the Bank to intervene massively to ensure the liquidity of the banking system and to cushion the costs of refinancing states. Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83048


I agree that the remit of the ESCB in general and the ECB in particular are wider than is generally reported. Article 13 certainly seems to suggest that as part of the EU Institution architecture it is bound by the rule of those institutions but doesn't Article 130 (seemingly lifted verbatim from the Treaty of Rome) appear to contradict this: -

"When exercising the powers and carrying out the tasks and duties conferred upon them by the Treaties and the Statute of the ESCB and of the ECB, neither the European Central Bank, nor a national central bank, nor any member of their decision-making bodies shall seek or take instructions from Union institutions, bodies, offices or agencies, from any government of a Member State or from any other body."




Perhaps you would like to distinguish between "instructions" and "guidance"? More seriously, the "instructions" are set out in the treaty, which forms part of the ECB mandate. One of the primary objectives of the ECB, therefore, is to advance the objectives of the Union, and there would be nothing to stop the commission guiding the ECB as to what those objectives might be. Failure for the ECB to conform with the provisions of Art. 13 are, to my understanding, justiciable in the ECJ, which further adds to the pressure.


I think I could make a reasonable stab at this if I was looking at a contract. More and more a treaty looks to me like a political rather than a legal document, which probably means that there is no difference between instruction and guidance. This puts it way outside my area of expertise but reading and re-reading (and re-reading) the defined role of the ESCB/ECB (apart from having different definitions, they are used seemingly interchangeably within the treaties) I would be surprised if even they know the limits of their work.
gareth
#13 Posted : 17 August 2012 10:29:25(UTC)
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From Eurocrash: Lisbon treaty goes missing
Quote:
The Bank, we are then told, could again be active, especially after president Mario Draghi had recently declared that he would do whatever it takes to defend the euro, which gives rise to the question of whether the tasks the ECB has taken over are still covered by its mandate.

According to Bundesbank chief Jens Weidmann, the ECB is being used for purposes which increasingly do not comply with its mandate, so much so that politicians of the CDU and FDP now hold that a fundamental reform of the Bank is necessary.
I would be interested to know if there are any politician calling for the ECB to stick to its mandate rather than the continuing calls for reforming it to match what it is already doing and what it would like to do.

With the mandate so widely drawn as you point out thanks to Article 13 there should be no reason to be calling for reform but plenty of people are. If it was highlighted that they already have the authority to do whatever the hell they like might they fear that being counter-productive? I would be left with the impression that they have the authority to make arbitrary decisions at the drop of a hat which is not a pleasant place to try and do business let alone protect the value of your earnings and savings.
berfel
#14 Posted : 17 August 2012 13:50:35(UTC)
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Maybe Greece should consult with Dogbert's International Bank instead of dealing with the ECB. BigGrin
euSSR Go Home
#15 Posted : 18 August 2012 01:28:42(UTC)
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Dr. N wrote:
Lisbon treaty goes missing
..
Oh my. You had my hopes up there, Dr. N!!!
I keep coming back here just to see if it's trueBlink
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