logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
richard
#1 Posted : 23 February 2013 09:26:49(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,359
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 113 times
Was thanked: 342 time(s) in 284 post(s)
From many accounts, Marta Andreasen is an impossible woman, and UKIP is well rid of her. But the fact that she became a UKIP MEP at all is a reflection of how Nigel Farage manipulates the party list to put his own candidates in place – very often in breach of his own party rules.

Nevertheless, when she was first introduced at their conference in Bournemouth, a party activist remembers that Nigel himself introduced her as their new golden girl - the UKIP equivalent of a then ascendant Sarah Palin. How things change.

For what its worth, my view is that she should never have been included in the list in the first place. Those with longer memories will recall that before Farage found her a home, she had already sought a place on the Tory list, only coming over to UKIP when offered a paid post as its treasurer.

Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83650
thespecialone
#2 Posted : 23 February 2013 09:57:06(UTC)
thespecialone

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 209
Man
United Kingdom
Location: Gloucestershire

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)
I don't get why she thinks that Cameron's stance on the In/Out referendum is believable. Using it for her own means?
 1 user thanked thespecialone for this useful post.
pipesmoker on 23/02/2013(UTC)
meltemian
#3 Posted : 23 February 2013 10:02:19(UTC)
meltemian

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 81
Greece
Location: Corfu

Thanks: 45 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Wasn't it Marta Andreasen who blew the whistle on all the fraud and potential for fraud in the EU?
Don't know much about her apart from that but she doesn't seem to be someone who is afraid to open her mouth when she thinks something isn't right. Whatever her personality may be she seems to stand for truth over obfuscation.
TheBoilingFrog
#4 Posted : 23 February 2013 10:03:43(UTC)
TheBoilingFrog

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 414
United Kingdom
Location: Didcot

Thanks: 28 times
Was thanked: 29 time(s) in 26 post(s)
Originally Posted by: thespecialone Go to Quoted Post
I don't get why she thinks that Cameron's stance on the In/Out referendum is believable. Using it for her own means?


I suspect that isn't really the issue... she knew she was unlikely to be reselected as UKIP MEP candidate
richard
#5 Posted : 23 February 2013 10:25:27(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,359
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 113 times
Was thanked: 342 time(s) in 284 post(s)
Originally Posted by: meltemian Go to Quoted Post
Wasn't it Marta Andreasen who blew the whistle on all the fraud and potential for fraud in the EU?
Don't know much about her apart from that but she doesn't seem to be someone who is afraid to open her mouth when she thinks something isn't right. Whatever her personality may be she seems to stand for truth over obfuscation.



The background to her time with the Commission gives a different story to the public legend. She was hired to help clean up the mess after the Santer resignation. Set specific performance targets, she failed to deliver and, when pressed, instead went public to complain of the very things she had been hired to sort out. The details are in the ECJ judgement and do not make happy reading for her ...

http://martaandreasen.bl...ission-judgement_24.html

original here ... (in French - Google translation)

http://curia.europa.eu/j...p;part=1&cid=1861771
techno
#6 Posted : 23 February 2013 10:45:56(UTC)
Techno

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 18/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 226
United Kingdom

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 25 time(s) in 20 post(s)
Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: thespecialone Go to Quoted Post
I don't get why she thinks that Cameron's stance on the In/Out referendum is believable. Using it for her own means?

I suspect that isn't really the issue... she knew she was unlikely to be reselected as UKIP MEP candidate

In other words, she's a careerist, somebody for whom politics is a job rather than a calling.

Not surprising really. By the time you get to that age and that level in the bureaucracy, it pays you a good living and you have become accustomed to a certain lifestyle. If you leave there isn't much else you could do. Working in a call centre or a Costa coffee shop would probably be all she could get.

Ravenscar
#7 Posted : 23 February 2013 10:54:04(UTC)
Ravenscar

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,016
Location: The North

Thanks: 124 times
Was thanked: 150 time(s) in 100 post(s)
A united front we are not, shame.


Personally, I never got just why Marta Andreasen joined UKIP in the first place, she was always to my mind a natural camerloony.


I have said before, I do like some of what Farage does, however these days he comes across as a cult leader.

UKIP, has so many good people and right minded good people - I will not criticise them further, for their manifesto says much of what I truly feel but I also feel compromised in that we [in the UK] need a new way and in Referism we can.

However - I will vote UKIP at the next election.
richard
#8 Posted : 23 February 2013 11:01:28(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,359
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 113 times
Was thanked: 342 time(s) in 284 post(s)
Originally Posted by: techno Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: thespecialone Go to Quoted Post
I don't get why she thinks that Cameron's stance on the In/Out referendum is believable. Using it for her own means?

I suspect that isn't really the issue... she knew she was unlikely to be reselected as UKIP MEP candidate

In other words, she's a careerist, somebody for whom politics is a job rather than a calling.

Not surprising really. By the time you get to that age and that level in the bureaucracy, it pays you a good living and you have become accustomed to a certain lifestyle. If you leave there isn't much else you could do. Working in a call centre or a Costa coffee shop would probably be all she could get.



I doubt she would get a job with Costa ...

http://www.independent.c...coffee-shop-8501329.html


Mark B
#9 Posted : 23 February 2013 11:06:39(UTC)
Mark B

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 18/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 123

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 14 time(s) in 12 post(s)
Quote:
......Grant Shapps, the Conservative chairman, says that her defection is a vindication of Mr Cameron's European policies. Her words on the Prime Minister's record "prove that the Conservatives are the only party who can protect Britain’s interests in Europe".


That's got to be seen as a kick in balls for Farage and UKIP. I wonder if over time this might prove to be a 'Geoffrey Howe' Moment, but then again, perhaps not.




S.I.R.O.
Pogo
#10 Posted : 23 February 2013 11:10:25(UTC)
Pogo

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 18/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 5
United Kingdom
Location: Midlands

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
It seems to me that having a "Stalinist" at the top of a new political party is about the only way that it will ever have enough "direction" to enable it to grow. A small party cannot afford to show itself being pulled in one direction then another depending upon which factional interest has the acsendancy from moment to moment. The utter inability of the more extreme left to organise itself coherently is an excellent worked example, the "Peoples' Front for Judea", the "Judean Peoples' Front" etc. are funny because of the inherent truth therein.

So Cameron appears to "listen, adapt and do what is right for the country" (though in my opinion "the country" seems to take a fairly low priority in comparison with party, sponsors and the EU), but what if he does? The Conservative Party is sheddding support and members at a remarkable rate, so it's not a policy that has much traction with the great unwashed. Mr farage may become a handicap to UKIP should it grow to any size, but at the moment he appears outwardly to be a straight-talking and down-to-earth chap - whether he is or not is, at this juncture, relatively immaterial. UKIP needs support and members and its present approach seems to be working.
Archy
#11 Posted : 23 February 2013 11:16:01(UTC)
Archy

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
United Kingdom
Location: Midlands

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)

Richard says:

Quote:
From many accounts, Marta Andreasen is an impossible woman, and UKIP is well rid of her.


I read her book : Brussels laid Bare. Despite being appallingly written this seemed quite an amazing description as to how she was totally ignored from the beginning of her appointment and met with a stone wall whenever she wanted to raise an issue or even talk to officials.

I have never met her but must admit that I had always considered her a great heroine in line with other EU whistleblowers such as Hans Martin Tillack.

I've just checked to find that :
Reportedly, after sacking her the OECD admitted its accounting system was 'archaic' and in urgent need of reform. The EU accounts are in a similar situation.

Andreasen was fully suspended from her job by the Commission in May 2002 (for "violating Articles 12 and 21 of staff regulations, failure to show sufficient loyalty and respect"). Wikipedia

The ECJ judgement may well have proven this but surely failure to show loyalty and respect is hardly cause for dismissal!
James102
#12 Posted : 23 February 2013 11:21:01(UTC)
James102

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 01/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 154

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 14 time(s) in 12 post(s)
Always very difficult to start a new political party and even more so in a country like the UK with such an entrenched political culture.

Surrounding themselves with "Yes Men (and women) is a common problem,and weakness, noted even by Machiavelli.I suppose we have all observed it and either see it as a benefit of power or as something to be avoided if we ever get in a position to choose our immediate team.
Mass defections from the Conservative party might alter the culture and leaders are not forever. People drawn to politics will tend to be rather difficult.Imagine the ego required to think you can go from political wonk to party leader as Cameron,Clegg and Miliband have.
vincent
#13 Posted : 23 February 2013 11:33:57(UTC)
vincent

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 981
United Kingdom
Location: Sunderland

Thanks: 86 times
Was thanked: 32 time(s) in 29 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Mark B Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
......Grant Shapps, the Conservative chairman, says that her defection is a vindication of Mr Cameron's European policies. Her words on the Prime Minister's record "prove that the Conservatives are the only party who can protect Britain’s interests in Europe".


That's got to be seen as a kick in balls for Farage and UKIP. I wonder if over time this might prove to be a 'Geoffrey Howe' Moment, but then again, perhaps not.




S.I.R.O.


Well if Andreasen really does think Cameron's speech was a "game changer" she and Shapps make good bedfellows.This is only a belief in tiny Tory minds.
richard
#14 Posted : 23 February 2013 11:34:37(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,359
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 113 times
Was thanked: 342 time(s) in 284 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Pogo Go to Quoted Post
It seems to me that having a "Stalinist" at the top of a new political party is about the only way that it will ever have enough "direction" to enable it to grow. A small party cannot afford to show itself being pulled in one direction then another depending upon which factional interest has the acsendancy from moment to moment. The utter inability of the more extreme left to organise itself coherently is an excellent worked example, the "Peoples' Front for Judea", the "Judean Peoples' Front" etc. are funny because of the inherent truth therein.

So Cameron appears to "listen, adapt and do what is right for the country" (though in my opinion "the country" seems to take a fairly low priority in comparison with party, sponsors and the EU), but what if he does? The Conservative Party is sheddding support and members at a remarkable rate, so it's not a policy that has much traction with the great unwashed. Mr farage may become a handicap to UKIP should it grow to any size, but at the moment he appears outwardly to be a straight-talking and down-to-earth chap - whether he is or not is, at this juncture, relatively immaterial. UKIP needs support and members and its present approach seems to be working.



You are not so very far wrong ... in the manner of General Patton, the job is to protect democracy - not to practice it. The problem comes when the leader (as in Farage) is incompetent, and surrounds himself with sycophants and incompetents. It he is going to be a "Stalinist" dictator, then he needs to be a good one.

As to whether UKIP is working, one has to say that the UKIP paradigm is not ... his original intent was to gain seats in the Commons and, through his band of MPs form an alliance with the eurosceptic Tory MPs and lead us out of the European Union. Clearly, his grand strategy has failed. Then, in terms of mounting a credible exit campaign, that has yet to be tested. The likelihood, though, is that if we ever went to an in-out referendum, then we would lose.

thespecialone
#15 Posted : 23 February 2013 12:34:12(UTC)
thespecialone

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 209
Man
United Kingdom
Location: Gloucestershire

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Pogo Go to Quoted Post
It seems to me that having a "Stalinist" at the top of a new political party is about the only way that it will ever have enough "direction" to enable it to grow. A small party cannot afford to show itself being pulled in one direction then another depending upon which factional interest has the acsendancy from moment to moment. The utter inability of the more extreme left to organise itself coherently is an excellent worked example, the "Peoples' Front for Judea", the "Judean Peoples' Front" etc. are funny because of the inherent truth therein.

So Cameron appears to "listen, adapt and do what is right for the country" (though in my opinion "the country" seems to take a fairly low priority in comparison with party, sponsors and the EU), but what if he does? The Conservative Party is sheddding support and members at a remarkable rate, so it's not a policy that has much traction with the great unwashed. Mr farage may become a handicap to UKIP should it grow to any size, but at the moment he appears outwardly to be a straight-talking and down-to-earth chap - whether he is or not is, at this juncture, relatively immaterial. UKIP needs support and members and its present approach seems to be working.



You are not so very far wrong ... in the manner of General Patton, the job is to protect democracy - not to practice it. The problem comes when the leader (as in Farage) is incompetent, and surrounds himself with sycophants and incompetents. It he is going to be a "Stalinist" dictator, then he needs to be a good one.

As to whether UKIP is working, one has to say that the UKIP paradigm is not ... his original intent was to gain seats in the Commons and, through his band of MPs form an alliance with the eurosceptic Tory MPs and lead us out of the European Union. Clearly, his grand strategy has failed. Then, in terms of mounting a credible exit campaign, that has yet to be tested. The likelihood, though, is that if we ever went to an in-out referendum, then we would lose.



Isn't that though partly because although many Tories huff and puff about the EU, they really know that personally they are better off in that party rather than climbing on board with UKIP? They are politicians after all.

I notice that this is not the top news on the ConHome site, they just link a DM article and the defection gets a mention in an article about UKIP policies.

Plus Iain Dale doesn't think much of her - http://www.iaindale.com/...eware-of-marta-andreasen

Edited by user 23 February 2013 12:42:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

AutonomousMind
#16 Posted : 23 February 2013 12:44:48(UTC)
AutonomousMind

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 16
Man
United Kingdom

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 4 post(s)
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Pogo Go to Quoted Post
It seems to me that having a "Stalinist" at the top of a new political party is about the only way that it will ever have enough "direction" to enable it to grow. A small party cannot afford to show itself being pulled in one direction then another depending upon which factional interest has the acsendancy from moment to moment. The utter inability of the more extreme left to organise itself coherently is an excellent worked example, the "Peoples' Front for Judea", the "Judean Peoples' Front" etc. are funny because of the inherent truth therein.

So Cameron appears to "listen, adapt and do what is right for the country" (though in my opinion "the country" seems to take a fairly low priority in comparison with party, sponsors and the EU), but what if he does? The Conservative Party is sheddding support and members at a remarkable rate, so it's not a policy that has much traction with the great unwashed. Mr farage may become a handicap to UKIP should it grow to any size, but at the moment he appears outwardly to be a straight-talking and down-to-earth chap - whether he is or not is, at this juncture, relatively immaterial. UKIP needs support and members and its present approach seems to be working.



You are not so very far wrong ... in the manner of General Patton, the job is to protect democracy - not to practice it. The problem comes when the leader (as in Farage) is incompetent, and surrounds himself with sycophants and incompetents. It he is going to be a "Stalinist" dictator, then he needs to be a good one.

As to whether UKIP is working, one has to say that the UKIP paradigm is not ... his original intent was to gain seats in the Commons and, through his band of MPs form an alliance with the eurosceptic Tory MPs and lead us out of the European Union. Clearly, his grand strategy has failed. Then, in terms of mounting a credible exit campaign, that has yet to be tested. The likelihood, though, is that if we ever went to an in-out referendum, then we would lose.



Therein lies the problem. Looking at all this in black and white terms it all seems so simple:

  • Articulate the basic rationale for leaving the EU (democratic structures, self determination and accountability)
  • Set out the benefits of independence (money handed to the EU kept in the UK, genuine opportunity to improve trade and lower tariffs to reduce consumer costs, increased opportunity to influence representatives, direct relationships with other countries and representation on world bodies)
  • Encourage people to support this vision (provide coherent strategy for protecting our interests and respectable campaign they can back, eschew ulterior motives and ambitions, keep the argument and benefits to people front and centre rather than talk to the issues of the opposition)

But instead the campaign's self appointed directors distract people from the real issues, the core issues are left on the margins, the absence of respectability undermines credibility and likeability, and the lack of coherent strategy from the like of Farage leaves the 'out' side looking feckless and likely to damage our economic interests.

That's why our prospects to secure our independence are dwindling fast despite a population that is keen for it to happen.
“The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
TheBoilingFrog
#17 Posted : 23 February 2013 12:48:05(UTC)
TheBoilingFrog

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 414
United Kingdom
Location: Didcot

Thanks: 28 times
Was thanked: 29 time(s) in 26 post(s)
Originally Posted by: thespecialone Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Pogo Go to Quoted Post
It seems to me that having a "Stalinist" at the top of a new political party is about the only way that it will ever have enough "direction" to enable it to grow. A small party cannot afford to show itself being pulled in one direction then another depending upon which factional interest has the acsendancy from moment to moment. The utter inability of the more extreme left to organise itself coherently is an excellent worked example, the "Peoples' Front for Judea", the "Judean Peoples' Front" etc. are funny because of the inherent truth therein.

So Cameron appears to "listen, adapt and do what is right for the country" (though in my opinion "the country" seems to take a fairly low priority in comparison with party, sponsors and the EU), but what if he does? The Conservative Party is sheddding support and members at a remarkable rate, so it's not a policy that has much traction with the great unwashed. Mr farage may become a handicap to UKIP should it grow to any size, but at the moment he appears outwardly to be a straight-talking and down-to-earth chap - whether he is or not is, at this juncture, relatively immaterial. UKIP needs support and members and its present approach seems to be working.



You are not so very far wrong ... in the manner of General Patton, the job is to protect democracy - not to practice it. The problem comes when the leader (as in Farage) is incompetent, and surrounds himself with sycophants and incompetents. It he is going to be a "Stalinist" dictator, then he needs to be a good one.

As to whether UKIP is working, one has to say that the UKIP paradigm is not ... his original intent was to gain seats in the Commons and, through his band of MPs form an alliance with the eurosceptic Tory MPs and lead us out of the European Union. Clearly, his grand strategy has failed. Then, in terms of mounting a credible exit campaign, that has yet to be tested. The likelihood, though, is that if we ever went to an in-out referendum, then we would lose.



Isn't that though partly because although many Tories huff and puff about the EU, they really know that personally they are better off in that party rather than climbing on board with UKIP? They are politicians after all.

I notice that this is not the top news on the ConHome site, they just link a DM article and the defection gets a mention in an article about UKIP policies.

Plus Iain Dale doesn't think much of her - http://www.iaindale.com/...eware-of-marta-andreasen


No surprise about Dale, he does Farage's dirty work when it comes to smears.

middle-class lefties are parasites
#18 Posted : 23 February 2013 12:50:06(UTC)
middle-class lefties are parasites

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 60

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 10 time(s) in 8 post(s)
"David Cameron...has shown he can listen, adapt and do what is right for the country, not just for personal gain"

The woman is a certifiable lunatic. UKIP is well shot of her.

The one thing Cameron has shown above all else is that he does not listen to anyone outside of his metro clique.
Ravenscar
#19 Posted : 23 February 2013 13:20:43(UTC)
Ravenscar

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 17/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,016
Location: The North

Thanks: 124 times
Was thanked: 150 time(s) in 100 post(s)
AM said:

Quote:
Articulate the basic rationale for leaving the EU (democratic structures, self determination and accountability)

Set out the benefits of independence (money handed to the EU kept in the UK, genuine opportunity to improve trade and lower tariffs to reduce consumer costs, increased opportunity to influence representatives, direct relationships with other countries and representation on world bodies)

Encourage people to support this vision (provide coherent strategy for protecting our interests and respectable campaign they can back, eschew ulterior motives and ambitions, keep the argument and benefits to people front and centre rather than talk to the issues of the opposition).


Yep.
richard
#20 Posted : 23 February 2013 14:23:04(UTC)
Richard

Rank: Administration

Groups: Registered, Administrators
Joined: 16/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,359
United Kingdom
Location: Bradford

Thanks: 113 times
Was thanked: 342 time(s) in 284 post(s)
Originally Posted by: TheBoilingFrog Go to Quoted Post


No surprise about Dale, he does Farage's dirty work when it comes to smears.




I think he's in lurve ...
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.6.1 | YAF © 2003-2013, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.299 seconds.