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richard
#1 Posted : 12 February 2013 12:56:11(UTC)
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Inadvertently, the perpetrators of the beef adulteration with horsemeat have brought into high profile the issue of food fraud, which is shortly to be discussed further in the House of Commons.



Read here...

http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83616
flyinthesky
#2 Posted : 12 February 2013 13:34:02(UTC)
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Another gigantic seen to be doing exercise, conducted, as quite often the case, by people unfit for the purpose but message and favour aligned.

Edited by user 12 February 2013 13:34:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

gareth
#3 Posted : 12 February 2013 14:45:13(UTC)
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Quote:
I am watching the debate to see what develops, as the EU implications are profound. Not least, the EU has been heavily involved in investigating food fraud, for instance with the FP6 research programme called TRACE.

This ran from January 2005 to the end of 2009, aimed at developing "generic and commodity specific traceability systems that will enable the objective verification of the origin of food and animal feed". Ironically, lead coordinator, in a programme that cost €18,971,749, was none other than Defra, with over 40 other institutions involved.

I've had a brief look through the Cordis category FP6-food and found some more projects relating to food, meat and traceability:

PROSAFEBEEF - Improving the safety of beef and beef products for the consumer in production and processing
BIOTRACE IP - Improved bio-traceability of unintended microorganisms and their substances in food and feed chains
TRACEBACK - Integrated system for a reliable traceability of food supply chains
ECHAIN - Developing a stakeholders' guide on the vulnerability of food and feed chains to dangerous agents and substances
Q-PORKCHAINS - Improving the quality of pork and pork products for the consumer: Development of an innovative, integrated, and sustainable food production chain of high quality pork products matching consumer demand

Those add up to around 70 million euros in addition to 19 million for TRACE.

They are definitely spending money looking into this and yet it's fallen over in a pretty spectacular fashion.
richard
#4 Posted : 12 February 2013 15:17:34(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gareth Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
I am watching the debate to see what develops, as the EU implications are profound. Not least, the EU has been heavily involved in investigating food fraud, for instance with the FP6 research programme called TRACE.

This ran from January 2005 to the end of 2009, aimed at developing "generic and commodity specific traceability systems that will enable the objective verification of the origin of food and animal feed". Ironically, lead coordinator, in a programme that cost €18,971,749, was none other than Defra, with over 40 other institutions involved.

I've had a brief look through the Cordis category FP6-food and found some more projects relating to food, meat and traceability:

PROSAFEBEEF - Improving the safety of beef and beef products for the consumer in production and processing
BIOTRACE IP - Improved bio-traceability of unintended microorganisms and their substances in food and feed chains
TRACEBACK - Integrated system for a reliable traceability of food supply chains
ECHAIN - Developing a stakeholders' guide on the vulnerability of food and feed chains to dangerous agents and substances
Q-PORKCHAINS - Improving the quality of pork and pork products for the consumer: Development of an innovative, integrated, and sustainable food production chain of high quality pork products matching consumer demand

Those add up to around 70 million euros in addition to 19 million for TRACE.

They are definitely spending money looking into this and yet it's fallen over in a pretty spectacular fashion.


Thanks for that ... they are throwing money at the issue, but not acuatally delivering any improvements in a problem that they have created.

Edited by user 12 February 2013 15:18:19(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

James102
#5 Posted : 12 February 2013 15:49:27(UTC)
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“The House of Commons needs to broaden its horizons and rejoin the world.”

Not while it is dominated by a political class that lack experience outside politics.
gareth
#6 Posted : 12 February 2013 16:24:57(UTC)
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Catalogue of Food Quality and Safety projects in FP6

Quote:
Between 2002 and 2006, a total of 181 projects received €751 million between them. The ‘Food quality and safety’ priority covered many of the research topics addressed by FP5’s ‘Quality of life’ programme, but also encompassed new scientific areas:


That's a lot of money.

The pdf catalogue mentions TRACE on page 64 and (SIGMA)Chain on page 131.
Stephen
#7 Posted : 12 February 2013 16:48:32(UTC)
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"...telling us that "consumers increasingly want to have confidence in the labelling of their food and, in particular, to be certain where their food comes from". "
Nothing in that about quality,health or safety. Just make sure the the paperwork is all right and everything's fine.
And why do I suspect the labeling issue was more a measure against genetically modified food than a safety issue?

Of the 5 programs gareth found,one appears to be nothing but another pamphleting exercise-see how hard we're working for you!-and at two appear to be a way to give subsidies to politically connected cow and pig "farmers"(more likely research institutes looking to improve stocks w/an approved EU stamp,instead of those evil US animals fed GM corn and loaded w/hormones.) Altho to be fair,the pamphleting one may be a guide to the participants in the food network on how to keep their paperwork in order.
Dodgy Geezer
#8 Posted : 12 February 2013 16:50:27(UTC)
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Quote:
the FBI and the World Customs Institute had dubbed food fraud "the crime of the century", earning perpetrators $49 billion annually.


Surely Global Warming does better than this? I've heard sums in the quadrillions mentioned...
IanReid
#9 Posted : 12 February 2013 16:54:44(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Inadvertently, the perpetrators of the beef adulteration with horsemeat have brought into high profile the issue of food fraud, which is shortly to be discussed further in the House of Commons.Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83616


Shock, horror the Beeb have just put up this article, claiming in essence that an earlier EU ban of a popular type of mince meat made us vulnerable to the problem. The quoted source is an ex senior scientist at the Food Standards Agency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...nce-environment-21430329

Originally Posted by: "article" Go to Quoted Post

An EU decision to reclassify a type of minced meat widely used in the UK played a significant part in creating the horsemeat crisis, a former Food Standards Agency senior scientist says.

Desinewed meat was a key ingredient in value items such as pies, lasagne and other processed beef products.

Dr Mark Woolfe said the decision to ban it last year had prompted producers to go outside the UK to source supplies of cheap mince.

The FSA rejected his argument.


Reading the piece it does seem, to the layman, as though there is some plausibility to it.
comet
#10 Posted : 12 February 2013 18:01:41(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: IanReid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Inadvertently, the perpetrators of the beef adulteration with horsemeat have brought into high profile the issue of food fraud, which is shortly to be discussed further in the House of Commons.Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83616


Shock, horror the Beeb have just put up this article, claiming in essence that an earlier EU ban of a popular type of mince meat made us vulnerable to the problem. The quoted source is an ex senior scientist at the Food Standards Agency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...nce-environment-21430329

Originally Posted by: "article" Go to Quoted Post

An EU decision to reclassify a type of minced meat widely used in the UK played a significant part in creating the horsemeat crisis, a former Food Standards Agency senior scientist says.

Desinewed meat was a key ingredient in value items such as pies, lasagne and other processed beef products.

Dr Mark Woolfe said the decision to ban it last year had prompted producers to go outside the UK to source supplies of cheap mince.

The FSA rejected his argument.


Reading the piece it does seem, to the layman, as though there is some plausibility to it.


I'm surprised the Beeb retailed this.

The idea is that the EU imposes common standards which are largely superior to those of the nation states, so much so that they must be trusted and products so authorised cannot be routinely challenged, apart from on the most serious grounds of endangering health.

Now it turns out that supplies of cheap mince approved by the EU system, from other countries in the EU, cannot be relied on to be wholesome. A form of meat which we were happy to use was reclassified by the EU and we were forced to use a substitute which has caused problems.

So what's the EU there for? It can't create standards and ensure they are stuck to and the delusion that it can is dangerous. In fact what it is doing is to interfere with the legitimate right and responsibility of the British authorities to protect the public.
Ravenscar
#11 Posted : 12 February 2013 18:47:43(UTC)
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There is not a lot we can do, although at least we could make a start and try and ensure British animals, bred and processed on these shores are properly labelled and attempt to guarantee authenticity of origin and history - from farm to plate.
But alas, I fear even that is beyond the ken and wit of our truly pathetic government and its horde of inadequate civil servants and dunderheads in Defra.

Other than that - don't buy it if you do not trust the emporium. On most food assume, label all other food - "mystery food and subject to EU testing and analysis = food eaten at own risk".

The consumer can make a real difference here, go to farm shops, go to farms and buy direct, insist on purchasing meat from British suppliers and farms and use a good butcher.

Get to know your local traders and stiff the supermarkets - consumers have power.

There is too much blame going round and not enough thinking going on.
gareth
#12 Posted : 12 February 2013 18:50:54(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: IanReid Go to Quoted Post
Reading the piece it does seem, to the layman, as though there is some plausibility to it.

The Food and Veterinary Office audit of desinewed meat production in the UK can be read here.(pdf)

In order for the suggestion to work, that changes in the classification on desinewed meat prompted the adulteration of meat, the food manufacturers would have to choose to swap desinewed beef/lamb/pork/whatever for desinewed horse or it would change the texture and appearance of the products. I can't see 100% horse lasagne being the consequence of adulteration of desinewed meat alone.

Although, something that jumps out at me is this statement on the FSA's website.

"The European Commission advises that DSM produced by mechanically separating residual meat from animal bones must be regarded as Mechanically Separated Meat (MSM), a product that cannot, under the provisions of European law, be produced from cattle, sheep and goat bones."

No mention of horse there. Using the same loophole logic that mechanically separated meat done gently is merely desinewed meat, if prohibited msm is defined as that from cattle, sheep and goat you'd be in the clear to use horse...
richard
#13 Posted : 12 February 2013 20:03:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: IanReid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: richard Go to Quoted Post
Inadvertently, the perpetrators of the beef adulteration with horsemeat have brought into high profile the issue of food fraud, which is shortly to be discussed further in the House of Commons.Read here... http://www.eureferendum....ogview.aspx?blogno=83616


Shock, horror the Beeb have just put up this article, claiming in essence that an earlier EU ban of a popular type of mince meat made us vulnerable to the problem. The quoted source is an ex senior scientist at the Food Standards Agency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...nce-environment-21430329

Originally Posted by: "article" Go to Quoted Post

An EU decision to reclassify a type of minced meat widely used in the UK played a significant part in creating the horsemeat crisis, a former Food Standards Agency senior scientist says.

Desinewed meat was a key ingredient in value items such as pies, lasagne and other processed beef products.

Dr Mark Woolfe said the decision to ban it last year had prompted producers to go outside the UK to source supplies of cheap mince.

The FSA rejected his argument.


Reading the piece it does seem, to the layman, as though there is some plausibility to it.




Well, it would have some validity if food fraud was confined to mainland Europe and didn't pre-date the EU ban.

Ravenscar
#14 Posted : 13 February 2013 08:01:23(UTC)
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We have far too many paper clip counters fixated on social engineering and far too many common purpose apparats not doing what they are supposed to do and following the Brussels line - paperwork trail.

Too many bloody acronyms and not enough actual investigative inspections.

The horse meat circus, now moves on and trundles into Todmorden and British abattoirs - to take the negative PR away from the EU and Brussels.

British abattoirs at it? Surely not....[ho ho].

All sorts of stuff going on, all sorts in 'chicken' products and pork in meat balls [hmm meat balls conjures a whole host of possibilities] - endless fun, cod sold as Pollock[?] - that's a new one - what about sausages? - Sausages - now there we know what to expect - "expect the impossible and even the inedible".

And then there was the old wives tale and rumour mill, which metamorphosed into Sweeny Todd.
David Phipps
#15 Posted : 13 February 2013 09:14:29(UTC)
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Some may think that it is off-topic but when the matter of democracy next gets mentioned by those on the green benches, perhaps they need reminding of this debate and the scarcity of the numbers on the benches for what was considered a scandal when the news first broke.

Not that, of course, this is the first instance of MPs appearing disinterested in a subject du jour....
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