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richard
#1 Posted : 09 February 2013 22:34:02(UTC)
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Under an absurd headline, Booker this week tackles the role of the Council of Europe in the "gay marriage" furore, trying to set out, and why this issue suddenly erupted from nowhere to the top of the political agenda.

In the incredibly limited space allowed him, he starts in 2010 with three main players, the Home Secretary Theresa May, our former Lib Dem equalities minister, Lynne Featherstone, and that shadowy institution, the Council of Europe in Strasbourg, with its controversial adjunct, the European Court of Human Rights.

In March 2010, ministers from the 47 countries represented in the Council of Europe agreed a "Recommendation" on "measures to combat discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation or gender identity".

View full article here
jaguar driver
#2 Posted : 09 February 2013 23:06:13(UTC)
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One good point that 'ought' to come out of this is that a lot of people are having a wake-up call.
Several of my cronies are asking where this came from considering the massive problems that the country is facing.
I have tried telling them, but it was like peeing into the wind.
However, the fact that so many people every where are asking the same question will hopefully shed a lot more light on the way we are governed.
Well Done Mr Booker and Dr North.


P.S. We need a smiley in the shape of an 'Oscar' or a 'brownie point' to award to you for these occasions of outstanding performance.
ThumpUp
gareth
#3 Posted : 10 February 2013 00:39:20(UTC)
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Is this a low hanging fruit situation? The ECtHR made their judgment a few years ago saying there wasn't a consensus on gay marriage but hinting that if there was they would recognise it, that was bascially a green light for the gay lobby and politicians to achieve 'something'.
richard
#4 Posted : 10 February 2013 08:15:41(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gareth Go to Quoted Post
Is this a low hanging fruit situation? The ECtHR made their judgment a few years ago saying there wasn't a consensus on gay marriage but hinting that if there was they would recognise it, that was bascially a green light for the gay lobby and politicians to achieve 'something'.


Yes, I think it is that, but a bit more. There is definitely a nexus between the different bodies - UN - EU - CoE and others, all working the agenda between them. They use each other to create an apparent consensus, each bouncing off the other. I've called it elsewhere a "concert of institutions".

Ravenscar
#5 Posted : 10 February 2013 08:39:53(UTC)
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Yes, CB doesn't get much space but he makes his point.

The boy done good, he was in Saturdays' Mail and on about trashing councils and talking about trash - Radders was too = wheelie bins 'n' all.Cool

Edited by user 10 February 2013 08:42:55(UTC)  | Reason: equals, as we were once - not so these days, the proles are definitely the underclass.

techno
#6 Posted : 10 February 2013 08:54:52(UTC)
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I realise now that when the government implements a law that nobody seems to want it is probably coming from the Council of Europe or the EU. I first noticed this phenomenon in the 1990s under John Major but didn't understand why.

The things about left wing philosophy is that it assumes that the general public are backwards and ignorant. So if people are opposed to something this is seen as evidence that it is the right thing to do. This is why protesting against something actually makes it more likely to happen.

I am looking forward to the fun that will be had when the EU implements Europe-wide mortgage regulation, which directly conflicts with the British practise of leaving it up to the free market. The vote is being continuously delayed, due to behind the scenes pressure from British financial lobbyists. A vote is now planned for March. Landlords don't want it either.

I've also found evidence that the EU is researching Europe-wide tenancy law.

Edited by user 10 February 2013 09:21:13(UTC)  | Reason: grammar, additional reserach

James102
#7 Posted : 10 February 2013 09:36:41(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: techno Go to Quoted Post
I realise now that when the government implements a law that nobody seems to want it is probably coming from the Council of Europe or the EU. I first noticed this phenomenon in the 1990s under John Major but didn't understand why.

The things about left wing philosophy is that it assumes that the general public are backwards and ignorant. So if people are opposed to something this is seen as evidence that it is the right thing to do. This is why protesting against something actually makes it more likely to happen.

I am looking forward to the fun that will be had when the EU implements Europe-wide mortgage regulation, which directly conflicts with the British practise of leaving it up to the free market. The vote is being continuously delayed, due to behind the scenes pressure from British financial lobbyists. A vote is now planned for March. Landlords don't want it either.

I've also found evidence that the EU is researching Europe-wide tenancy law.


The other advantage of using international institutions and treaties is that it removes (in practice if not in theory)the ability of elected governments to change such legislation.

Mark B
#8 Posted : 10 February 2013 11:28:34(UTC)
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Quote:
Dr. North wrote:
For that, we have to go back to 2009 when, in opposition, Mr Cameron had pledged to repeal the Human Rights Act.


So, if Cameron had kept his promise on repealing the ECHR, would we now be facing this issue ? I dare say it would have happened at some point some how, but at least we would have been in more control.

Trust the Lib Dems to be behind it.
richard
#9 Posted : 10 February 2013 11:40:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mark B Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
Dr. North wrote:
For that, we have to go back to 2009 when, in opposition, Mr Cameron had pledged to repeal the Human Rights Act.


So, if Cameron had kept his promise on repealing the ECHR, would we now be facing this issue ? I dare say it would have happened at some point some how, but at least we would have been in more control.

Trust the Lib Dems to be behind it.



The ECHR runs through this like letters through Blackpool rock.

graham wood
#10 Posted : 10 February 2013 11:42:52(UTC)
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It is doubly ironic that is an ex "equalities" minister (whatever that might mean), and a Tory Home Sec. committed to upholding "Conservative family values", completely failed to understand how their policy would backfire on them, due to the usual reasons of haste in rushing the proposals through the Commons, and not understanding the inevitable law of 'unforseen consequences.

The only reason for SSM put forward by government ministers rests upon the false "equality" argument (there are minor additional absurdities such as SSM would "strengthen marriage"). Thus they perpetuated the absurd myth that the redefinition of marriage is somehow a re-balancing towards "equal" marriage.
It now transpires that it is anything but equal because:

1. It would not necessarily, as for normal marriage, include any committment to fidelity and a lifelong indissoluble union.

2.SSM cannot of necessity include a legal or a biological provision of consummation. Such a "union" by definition would be barren and sterile

3. SSM has no provison for separation or divorce on the grounds of adultery - as by law enjoined for heterosexual couples. (homosexuals are known to be the most promiscuous group above all others in western societies.)

4. By definition SSM cannot fulfill one of the most important essentials of normal marriage (except by intervention of one or more third party), namely the ability to beget and raise children in families.

5. SSM would be a genderless union - unknown in any society or culture past or present. Therefore not marriage in any sense, since all species reproduce through the biological union of male and female.

6. Likely participants in SSM are known to be a very tiny minority of an existing minority of people in the UK. (less than 1%). By contrast normal and exclusively heterosexual union is the experience of countless millions of people.
Not much equality there then.

One cannot have totally different sets of rules for those who are 'equally' married, and by so doing entrench reverse discrimination.
By definition therefore if homosexual relationships are not equal to heterosexual relationships in the relevant sense, then homosexual 'marriage' is itself a form of unjust privilege for a tiny minority.

Government is only just beginning to wake up to the legal minefield they have to sort out!
Niall Warry
#11 Posted : 10 February 2013 13:02:25(UTC)
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And thus as they say 'in smoke filled rooms behind the scenes' are the laws of our land made.

This is a key reason as to why we need our Harrogate Agenda.
ELF
#12 Posted : 11 February 2013 12:17:30(UTC)
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In some EU countries tenancy law is a disaster. Essentially the tenant has a perpetual lease over the property, to the extent that they control, and take a cut from, any transfer of tenancy. You can't even evict for non-payment of rent. I know decent people in who leave property empty rather than let because of this. The rental sector is then left to the gangsters who break your legs if you don’t move out.

Edited by user 11 February 2013 12:18:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

techno
#13 Posted : 12 February 2013 17:42:19(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ELF Go to Quoted Post

In some EU countries tenancy law is a disaster. Essentially the tenant has a perpetual lease over the property, to the extent that they control, and take a cut from, any transfer of tenancy. You can't even evict for non-payment of rent. I know decent people in who leave property empty rather than let because of this. The rental sector is then left to the gangsters who break your legs if you don’t move out.

The politicians and the media keep telling us that we must get used to "European-style renting", often holding up Germany as an example. Half the population rent there and I understand that that is a country where tenants have lifetime contracts. However, I also understand that they are responsible for doing their own repairs which makes a big difference.

France is a problem I understand. There are rent controls and tenants can only be told to leave under certain circumstances. This has created a shortage in housing in Paris, with reports that people have been known to trade sexual favours in return for accommodation.

We won't have any choice anyway. Note the language in that report:
Quote:
[A] Union which aims to get closer to its citizens, to facilitate their day-to-day lives and to give them a common sense of justice, as stressed in the Tampere Conclusions, should play an active co-ordinating role in this important field to the benefit of its citizens, notwithstanding the lack of harmonisation powers.

Beyond that, a European role in tenancy law becomes unavoidable to the extent that European law exercises direct influence on national laws.

In other words, they don't have the powers right now, but they will one day. Nobody can stand in the way of the European project, mwahahahaha OhMyGod .

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.

Edited by user 12 February 2013 17:45:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

rosie
#14 Posted : 12 February 2013 23:47:49(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: techno Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ELF Go to Quoted Post

In some EU countries tenancy law is a disaster. Essentially the tenant has a perpetual lease over the property, to the extent that they control, and take a cut from, any transfer of tenancy. You can't even evict for non-payment of rent. I know decent people in who leave property empty rather than let because of this. The rental sector is then left to the gangsters who break your legs if you don’t move out.

The politicians and the media keep telling us that we must get used to "European-style renting", often holding up Germany as an example. Half the population rent there and I understand that that is a country where tenants have lifetime contracts. However, I also understand that they are responsible for doing their own repairs which makes a big difference.

France is a problem I understand. There are rent controls and tenants can only be told to leave under certain circumstances. This has created a shortage in housing in Paris, with reports that people have been known to trade sexual favours in return for accommodation.

We won't have any choice anyway. Note the language in that report:
Quote:
[A] Union which aims to get closer to its citizens, to facilitate their day-to-day lives and to give them a common sense of justice, as stressed in the Tampere Conclusions, should play an active co-ordinating role in this important field to the benefit of its citizens, notwithstanding the lack of harmonisation powers.

Beyond that, a European role in tenancy law becomes unavoidable to the extent that European law exercises direct influence on national laws.

In other words, they don't have the powers right now, but they will one day. Nobody can stand in the way of the European project, mwahahahaha OhMyGod .

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.



The EU is not the only one getting their claws into housing.

Obama administration gears up for new ‘healthy housing’ initiative


http://michellemalkin.co...9/obama-healthy-housing/

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